I like the idea of extorting porn and gambling sites, they are criminals in my opinion, does anyone know how I can volunter my system?

All the debate back and forth between OS's have almost nothing to do with the issue at hand. It is 'engineering' on the social level that is the problem at hand.

Seeing that they Internet the 'information highway' why do we let people with no knowledge, no sense of minimal responsibility, certainly no sense of morality in computing and otherwise just plain stupid users DRIVE FREELY ON THE DAMNED THING!?

Yeah, well my DEC 10 has never had a virus, trojan or anything even remotely close to being hacked into so, HA!!

Linux/UNIX is more unsecure than Windows. Why? Three words: OPEN SOURCE CODE!

The OS wars in here are laughable. I wonder how many of the Microsoft apologists know the name Theo de Raadt and have ever hacked at a Unix command line. When I read these comments I feel like I am at the supermarket reading tabloids. It's ponderous, man, f'n ponderous...

hmm..., its interesting to read some of these postings where several apparent windows fans are not content to simply disagree with the Mac/Linux people who claim to have less of the problems outlined in this article, but go even further to make personal attacks on them. Such remarks make them seem like idiots themselves. For myself, i have no major interesest in computers and quite frankly have a difficult time understanding the terminology that some of the more technical posters use. so since i have no particular interest in this or that operating system or the inner workings of the computer, i would certainly not be interested in spending my spare time figuring out system glitches, downloading anti-virus and anti-spyware software and figuring out other computer problems. this is what i was forced to deal with when i had the windows computer. i switched to the apple about 4 years ago as i didn't have the patience to deal with these problems. i just wanted a reliable computer to check my e-mail and go to the news websites and ebay, etc. after a few months of getting used to the small differences in the way an Apple computer works, everything was good. i was surprized. even though i am on the internet every day and have never had to install any anti-virus software, i have never had the computer have a problem in the four years its been running. i also don't have to do that defragging or other maintenance stuff i vaguely remember needing to do with my windows machine. so all you people may be vastly more knowledgable about computers, and its likely true that if the apple computer comprised 90% of the market, they would have more attacks, but as it is, they don't. the bottom line to me is, for whatever the reason, if i use the apple computer i don't have problems. if i use a windows machine i will. and another side benefit i discovered upon switching to the apple is everything is all in one piece. the computer is in the monitor. no tower anymore. so no more crawling under the desk to deal with that rats nest of wires. the apple just has one power cord and mouse and keyboard wires. so if it ever needed to be moved, its much easier. and the computer itself, just isn't such a visual blight in the house as the typical windows desktop. what i find puzzling is if something is good or seemingly better, whats the problem? why do some of these posters make such venomous attacks on those Linux/Mac users? i suspect that a majority of these people are not very well versed with the Mac and are basing their strong opinions based on third hand info, but have not signicant personal experience and familiarity using an Apple. if they got familiar with it and how it works, i think their attitude would change. my brother was like that. he knows all this stuff about computers and chastized me severely when i switched to apple and warned me of all the doom and gloom things that would happen as a result. i told him i had to do it as i just couldn't stand dealing with the windows machine having all these problems and maintenance issues. well nothing bad happened. the apple worked and had no problems. he still was adamant it was not good for a while. but now he grudgingly has used it some and although he hates to admit he likes it, his disparities about it have all but completely stopped. So sorry to all you ardent Windows fans, but as the apple ad says about their computers,- "It just Works".

This Mac user is laughing at the delusions of those who refuse to switch. That's right, just keep telling yourself that Macs are just as easy to hack as Windows. If you keep repeating it enough times, maybe you can convince yourself it's true! In the meantime, I'll continue to use the Internet on my Mac without the need for AVS, secure in the knowledge that there is NOT ONE SINGLE PIECE OF FUNCTIONAL MALWARE FOR MAC OS X!

We Mac users are smug for a reason. You may call us delusional when you can point to even ONE example of a Mac getting "0wn3d" in a non-controlled environment. Until then, we are quite simply right, and you are quite simply wrong.

Enjoy your malware, viruses, and fear! I'm off to surf the Web!

It is very possible to protect yourself effectively on a Windows machine. You don't need to switch operating systems to be secure.

However, I do agree with "Pete" in his post from April 3rd. Unix based systems (GNU/Linux, Mac OS X) ARE more secure because of their design. There are "levels" of permission built into the x86 processor that Unix systems utilize effectively. Windows machines also use these levels of permission, but in a limited and ineffective way--for example, it isn't very difficult to run code in ring0 (look it up) on Windows 95/98.

Going back to what "dlah9" wrote, I would like to point out that ISPs are already taking action against SMTP problems. My ISP blocks port 25 to eliminate spam sent from zombie machines. This is an effective solution because it is not an inconvenience to most users because they use web based mail and port 25 is not necessary.

"Silas's" comments are what we are really worried about here. Don Schaeffer has a point--why should we care if this software does not interrupt our business? Should we worry about a parasite that doesn't bother us? The problem is that your computer is likely being used in large scale Denial of Service attacks. You SHOULD worry about this parasite when it uses your computer to shut down other people's websites.

I find "John Doe's" comment humorous--DEC's VMS operating system was a gigantic beast, and kind of a design disaster. To give you an example of what I mean: a stanza from "The Hollow Men" was quoted in the VMS manual.

Read the comments posted below "Alan Sheets" on April 3rd. Then read "The Hacker Manifesto." (Look it up.) Get yourselves educated on some of the ideology behind this. The people who code this software probably need psychiatric treatment more than a prison sentence. Oh yeah, and the money is an incentive. Not to mention the fact that many foreign countries aren't enacting legislation to control this like we are trying to do: (a quote) "Please. American law means diddly squat in most of the countries the black hats route through."

I think the problem we're having is that people assume the internet "should" be secure. Most people assume that spam, spyware, virii, etc. are all things that shouldn't be there. The internet is a public place (as much as a digital network can be in the sense of the term) just like the world is a public place. Crime in real life is a common occurrence. Should the internet be any different? I'm not advocating this crime, I'm just saying--why should the internet be any different than real life just because it's digital? We lock our doors at night and migrate to the suburbs when we have children. There is no police force on the internet, so we need to take measures to protect ourselves. Get a firewall. Migrate to a different OS if it'll make you feel better. The internet will never be a utopia. Get used to the crime, and do things to protect yourself. It is possible to be secure! Don't wait around for software companies to pull their act together on security. I have a feeling that if we don't do things on a personal level to protect ourselves, we'll just see more of the same.

To the OS warriors out there: No one OS is really any better than the other. They all have their flaws that can be exploited.

To the clueless computer users: A computer is a tool. Nothing more. It can be used for either good or bad, and it's up to you as a responsible user to make sure it's not used for evil. Do you drive your car with the intent to maim, or do you try and drive safely? If it's the former, I hope somebody takes you off the road soon. You're dangerous.

To those who complain they still get viruses even though they run antivirus software: Keep it updated! Run anti-spyware software, too, and keep it updated! Whatever OS you run, make sure all your security updates are current! And every once in a while (if you run Windows or Linux - not sure if it works on Mac), go to Steve Gibson's excellent site, grc.com, and run Shields UP! to see if your computer is visible to the web or if it's "cloaked." If they can't see your computer, they can't exploit it.

And to all: GROW UP! Instead of pointing fingers or doing a lot of breast-beating about who's better, become more responsible! "They that are on their guard and appear ready to receive their adversaries, are in much less danger of being attacked than the supine, secure and negligent." - Ben Franklin.

Im thinking of 2 difficult but workable solutions

1) before using the internet, PC users have to register with proof of anitvirus, antispam, firewall protection

2) treat server sabotage the same way the governments treat hostage situations. Refuse to work with them. Its painful, but it works. If cyber criminals know that they will receive no money for locking down mainframes then they will restrain themselves to old fashioned "buy this" spam.

The only way I can think of for companies to survive the cyber hostage situation is for the government to financially support them during the transition period when cyber criminals figure out they need to find money elsewhere.

To: Keith S Tillotson Tennessee

I hope your code is better than your grammar! Other than your blind hate for Microsoft, I did not get a lot out of your ramble!

Oh.. You overwrote his boot sector after he 'probed' you??? baloney!!!

As a long time UNIX developer who also develops for Windows now, to all the Linux nuts out there, remember; The Morris worm was one, if not the first (~1988) big attack. And theres also a great box called the Cuckoos egg that details all kinds of 'older' UNIX exploits. There were some huge holes int it. All systems have holes and it truly is a numbers game. Put my father in front of a Linux box with the ability to install applications or click 'yes' to something and bad things will happen.

What the **** is Linux!!!???

I'm one of those unnerdies that buy a computer to send emails to my family,look at the wx, news and have fun with it. I don't play games or whatever. if all of you xperts would check the computer owners in the world, we are in the majority. We don[t have the slightest idea what dos,unix or whatever that nerdy
talk is, if you think we are the problem talk to us in simple "user friendly language" maybe we can help.
If you can't do that then as they say "don't bitch"

Look, I don't care if my computer is used as a lean, mean fighting machine. I just want to know how well it did at the end; I'm sure most of us would end up proud as can be to know that your computer helped take down 64,000 other ones. Forget UFC, this is the shiznit!

I knew all the MS hating Linux people would jump on this one... Linux is great, no argument there... but I don't think my Grandmother is going to live long enough to teach her to use and understand Linux!!!! Windows is EASY TO USE for the MASSES. That is why it was created. Sure, Linux is great if you're a technogeek with no life.....

What makes it all a little hard, is the difficulty to renew your Symantec/Norton without having a credit card. When the message first came up to renew, I tried to find a slot on their site to get a renewal by sending a cheque/check. Sent a query, no reply.
I rang the renewal centre free number, and the guy told me they would send an email where I could send my 99 AUD. Did not happen.
I checked Yellow Pages for their street address and sent my 99 $ cheque to Melbourne, with a covering letter.
After about 2 1/2 weeeks from my query to head office, I got an email if my query had been answered to my satisfaction. I told what I'd done.
Yesterday, symantec/Norton expired, it's still working as I write - I may have to live without Symantec's Norton, unless they have brought me back in the loop without telling me.
Why am I not a human being without a credit card?

telling people to use linux or mac osx isnt the solution. alot of people say that those 2 operating systems are really secure and have no viruses which at the moment is probably true but do you know why? its because hackers design there viruses to run on windows because about 95% of all pcs on the net today are running windows so they dont waste time designing viruses for mac or linux. but if everyone was to use linux/mac osx then i guarantee they wont be virus free for long. no matter what OS you use you cant get rid of viruses completely, there here now and will always be there and all we can do is continue to develope defences against them.

Gang warfare implies not only attacking, but being attacked. These hackers are fighting a one-sided war, and I'm not defending gangsters, but at least they're not a bunch of 12 year old p_ussies. Send Rustock and Warezov to me in person, and I'll spray everyone's brains involved.

There's no reason not to have a firewall or anti-virus. Both are available free for home computers.

Free Firewall: www.zonealarm.com

Free anti-virus: http://www.grisoft.com/doc/31/us/crp/0?prd=avw

Try Shields Up to test the security of your machine:
https://www.grc.com/x/ne.dll?bh0bkyd2

Look, this is really simple. If you want a secure platform, and I don’t care if it’s a Microsoft, Unix or Apple box, you need to know, understand and follow the 10 Immutable Laws of System Security:

1. If a bad guy can persuade you to run his program on your computer, it’s not your computer anymore.
2. If a bad guy can alter the OS on your computer, it’s not your computer anymore.
3. If a bad guy has unrestricted access, either physical or remotely, to your computer, it’s not your computer anymore.
4. If you allow a bad guy to upload programs to your web site, it’s not your site anymore.
5. Weak passwords trump strong security.
6. A machine is only as secure as the administrator or user is trustworthy.
7. Encrypted data is only as secure as the decryption key.
8. An out of date virus scanner is only marginally better than no virus scanner at all.
9. Absolute anonymity isn’t practical, in real life or on the web.
10. Technology is not a panacea.

No system is ever going to be 100 percent secure, and certainly not a home system (short of cutting off access to the net and living in a cave). No one OS is “more secure” than another, that’s the wrong way to look at this. You have to understand that most users’ are their own worst enemy. Until you take accountability for your own security on your box, you’re no better than those out there who blame the internet, video games and cartoons for their kids running amok. Blaming Microsoft for bot-wars or all the ills of the internet is tantamount to the same thing.

While everyone is busy expounding the virtues of his/her preference in security systems, our houses continue to be burglarized. Isn't it time we focused our attention on the real source of the problem?
The last time my HD was infected by a malicious hacker and I spent 3 weeks sitting up until 3 am, restoring lost data and re-constructing files, I was rapidly converted to being a believer in capital punishment.
Since most of today's legislators don't know how to turn on a computer (the secretary does that), they can't appreciate what a traumatic experience this can be. Consequently, the punishment rarely fits the crime and there is no deterrent to these anti-social deviates.
Someone earlier suggested jail time. That is not a bad start but if you want to get serious - but are a little squeamish - I would gladly volunteer to pull the switch on the first one convicted.
Then we can sit back and debate the merits of the various operating systems at our leisure.

i think that the majority of these infections are caused by people not regularly downloading the windows xp updates. the firewall of sp2 does a pretty good job at keeping things out. occasionally something does get by and its necessary to reformat your HD. i certainly dont tolerate any malicious software on my computer.

Be aware of your files. Observe & study files in startup, program files, windows/system, etc. Attempt to familiarize with as many files as possible. Should you ever sense performance irregularity, scan your files for a new file. Modern day hack files can control firewall, antispy & antivirus. Online antispy & antivirus scans will weaken the hack program. Find the file. Observe the file in dos editor & you should be able to identify additional file titles in your system. Use windows search to find location of all file names listed in hack file that you observed from dos editor. Should you find any listing of credit card in a hack file you will have to close your credit account. Finally, find & install eraser.exe to remove all of the hack program files. Uninstall eraser.exe afterwards cause that can be one bad program if misused. A person should probably reformat & reinstall os afterwards. It's kinda interesting to observe a hack file in dos editor. The fear of using the eraser program takes a back seat when a person has an emergency need to neutralize the hack program. I have personally witnessed a hack program take control of firewall, antispy, antivirus, etc programs on a computer. The eraser program is the only tool I have found to completely remove all hack files from a computer. God bless the eraser program!

Linux is easy to hack??? Now that is funny!!! Open source software allows the user, me, to write programs to it so script kiddies and the like from trying garbage like this. The last fool that tried to probe my SUSE received a nice birthday present via his probe into a file I have stored on my HD that corrupts his/her boot sector. I named this gift Adolf Hitler when I created it. Needless to say when he did probe me SUSE sent David S Miller, a Linux programmer that is better than anyone Microsquash ever dreamed of having in thier presence the data inwhich he was able to patch the very next day. Unlike Microsquash, Linux takes a stance against people who do these types of activities seriously and are by far the best computer software writers on the planet. And as far as Vista is concerned, it was being hacked 3 days after its release. Microsquash couldn't even write the drivers for the 64 bit version thats why they stole them from Linux Red Hat and Microsquash got sued in world court and lost. Bill Gates is not Linus Torvalds, David S Miller, or Therodore Tso. All of whom have proven continuosly that Linux is the superior operating system. Xandros is 128 bit, Microsquash can't even write a 64 bit operating system. that's why Vsta has been in beta since 2003, because thwey didn't know howto write the drivers. How are they gonna compete with Xandros, or the 256 bit that will be released by next year, or the 512 bit they have on the design table? They're not, microsquash will be out of business in 5 years, Google, Linux, and Mac wil be the only choice and hackers like these people will have people like me who can also write thier own software trashing them everytime they try to hack me.

This is just like a cochroach population, you get a poison, they become immune, the strong survive and business as usual. Create a stronger poison, they again become immune to it and the strong survive - constantly adapting to their new environment. Happiest office people I know still use typewriters...doesn't sound so bad - does it?

Does anyone have anything relevant to say other than just reading someone elses post and than copying what has been posted.....Jeez.... Ive read almost all of the posts and maybe 6 of them are actualy from a presumed knowlegable source. The net is the same as real life situations the criminal activity is going to go on there is not much that can be done to stop it other the owner vigilance and that just slows the problem down. Have we eliminated world hunger, murder rape, aids,cancer? NO its a problem that is profitable for the criminals and the so called people who try to end it

I'm a 64yr old grandma and I've used computers since 1975. Been thru all the changes. Never been hacked, crashed or gotten a virus or malware or spyware....I stay protected and I keep up with all the newest programs and upgrades. Just be smart and safe and get even...haha

yes, the internet can be full of people who have no idea what protection is and even how to use it if they had it. but for as long as there will be a way online, there will be a way for malicious people and groups to infiltrate whatever they want to with enough time and know how. to me its like an open window in summer, no matter how small the opening to allow fresh air in, you run the risk of letting in unwanted insects. like our own southern border with mexico, people complain all the time about illegal immigrants coming into the US, where there is a will to do something, someone will eventually find a way to do what someone else didnt want to happen. its called being human, we evolve in our thinking as time goes on. computers will only ever be as capable as the human who tells it what to do and what not to do. no one is perfect and to think a single pc or any system is totally secure is ignorant for the fact that we are human and vulernable and we are the ones who tell the computers what to do so therefore they are vulernable as well.

Ok, I don't get it....how does one hack a linux box? Does'nt it require a root password to access the system? How does a bot get that? Just curious since I see so much negative light shone on linux is so easy to hack. I just want to see some proof because I have yet to see any wide spread infections with them. And on the other hand, why does windows have 90% of the market? Strong arming vendors maybe?

I do agree though that almost every instance of a hacked machine falls everytime on the user. I do run XP SP2 and have it locked down and have never suffered any infections....mostly because I am more cautious about what I do and don't do.

Just my .02.

Blame the Payees. No jack - no hack.

its really amusing to see everyone throwing their two cents worth of oppinion in even tho most of them are just repeating the same argument or counter argument as most of the posters before them.

Try reading the other posts before u spew your factionalised sencond hand oppinions onto the forum so you get a more balanced idea rather than just peddaling your own oppinion (pro/anti linux/windows etc). That way you might be able to contribute to the debate as opposed to just clogging it up.

Remember that it isn't so much what OS you are using, or even what AV program you are running, but that being connected to the internet allows this to happen. Instead of the "blame-game", why not use this opportunity to voice real-world solutions to the bot problem. If I was a programmer, I would start to see dollar signs in finding something to stop, ID, or at least filter out these types of attacks.

Linux simply sucks. So does Mac.

Seems running Linux doesn't help either. I run a personal network between my 2 houses. The boxes that interface the Net are Linux. Both got infected.

Linux has security updates, Firefox isn't bulletproof either. The ones who ultimately are responsible for the sheep is the sheperd, meaning these bot gangs are educated about computer design from the top down which puts them even or above the designers of todays Operating Systems. The point is to get any computer security education out there that is even worth a nickle, a person needs to go to college or shell out lots of money, etc... so it is those people who are designing, implementing, and are being paid to help people with their computers they are the ones responsible. I was fustrated when my 60 yr old mother who got cable internet. Wasn't even offered by the company to secure her wireless router which is an easy thing to do. Imagine how most of the other techs are doing charging an arm and a leg for simple proceedures, so no it is you Mr./Mrs. Pretentious Linux Guru, Mr./Mrs. I know it all IT that is responsible, Bill Gates and CO. You know who you are.

This rebuttle has probably been beaten into the ground like a poor defenseless baby seal but you all advocating your specific OS likes and dislikes need to wake up and smell the coffee. One day you all are gonna wake up and find you have been owned by the TRS-80 USER *shudder*. Muhahahahaha

I thought my Commodore PET was safe...then the hackers just starting mailing cassette tapes to me... ba dam bamp.

Just because "You've got mail" doesn't mean you should open it. Do you know the sender? Are you expecting the attachment?

Just because you can download/open a program from the Net doesn't mean you should. Would you let a stranger use your computer? Of course not. Then why would you install a program that you don't know who wrote it, don't now why they wrote it and don't know what it does?

Some OS's are more secure than other but the bottom line is if the user is uneducated, naive or just plain stupid - no OS will be secure with he/she behind the keyboard.

User education, enforceable laws, proactive ISPs are all needed to fix the problem.

I just know that I am totally over it already. I understand that the bottom line ALWAYS comes down to $$$. It really agitates me that a great invention, with so much potential for acheiving great things through the possibilities that it opens, has become rife with a whole bunch of people with more time than brains. Somethings I hope I never understand. With the time they spend raping everyone in the "backdoor" a class in Ethics couldn't hurt.

Time for your State gov to get involved. Before you get to run on the Information Super Highway you will need to to go to a Gov agency stand in line for about 4 hours to get the PC inspected and registered. Next, you will then need to get a license to surf You will need to pass a "drivers" test and the eye test will consistent of Popup windows that say "Press OK to install this bot"

The speed limit will be posted as follows:
MS/ IE - 56k per second
Linux - 100MB per second.

This should keep the internet safe for all. Of course, there will be fees for all this but its for our own good.

Bye bye wild wild west..

Unfortunately for us all, we've got a lot of problems all coalescing into the big problem of hacking:

1. The Internet's a pretty recent invention, comparitively, but it's absolutely gargantuan. This all amounts to a lot of people being on a huge system that's moving in leaps and bounds with technology on a roller coaster to catch up. Bigger, faster, harder ware is pretty common nowadays and it's fairly inexpensive.

2. Everyone buys a computer, but nobody reads what to do with the thing after they get it up and running. YOU NEED PROTECTION! Those bots also might be sending your keystrokes to some John Doe in Lousiana who can (and likely will) clean your account with online purchases. Set up multiple firewalls if you can, run the best virus protection, and don't do anything stupid. This includes hitting porn sites (terribly adept at loading your computer up with spam), downloading ANYTHING from a source you don't 100% trust, or even giving out information on the phone. Believe me, I've seen telephone schemes used by hackers to pull information about your computer.

3. Using ANY kind of a common PC OS, no matter which one, without expecting carpet trojans to hit your PC indiscriminately. You can't blame the OS companies, any of them, for bad security. I used to blame Microsoft a lot until I realize how quickly Internet technology moves. In reality, it's impossible for any popular OS to be in complete lockdown because A] A lot of the features that make your OS popular, like auto-downloads and the like, can be used to jack your system and B] There are just too many hackers moving too quickly to do too much to honestly expect your OS can keep up profitably as a company. As said above, protect yourself and don't do anything stupid.

4.) We pay for hacking any time we actually follow through on one of the spam ads. Do us all a favor and at least make it unprofitable. Don't buy from sites or companies that spam.

Finally 5.) We're lazy. Seriously. I watch my friends click out of virus checks and complain about interruptions. I've seen them leave computers on overnight while they download music from questionable exchange programs from anonymous users so they don't have to purchase music. And I know people who haven't formatted their computers in five years that are still on Windows 98. Please people, keep your computers clean. Run your virus clean-up programs and reformat every so often, depending on how much you're online. It's a hassle, but it can save your life.

Sure, previous messages have gone over most of these saying THIS is the problem. In fact, the nature of the Internet, computers, UIs, and users combines to give us the difficulties we face.

P.S. Make sure you write your congressional representatives. Let's get some protections and sentencing in legislation and get our dusty legal system up to speed with the times

Just a thought. Maybe if some of the large ISP's would actually firewall their networks and would actually shut down spammers when they receive complaints the situation would get better. Most of the spam I get is coming from large US ISP's like Verizon, Charter and RoadRunner. There are tools that these ISP's could run to shut down accounts that are infected. Why isn't there more pressure being put on them to do their part? I take my hat off to Yahoo, MSN, AOL and Hotmail ALL of which respond to and shut down spammers accounts.

We ALL have a responsibility to keep our OS'S patched and run anti-virus software or get off the net.

I’m not familiar with the subject but agree it’s very scary. I was wondering if these hackers can get bank account information, and credit card information. I heard they could. So for those of you who say you don't care you really should! There are massive criminal acts that take place over the internet with stolen account information.

Also is anyone out there familiar with Spylocked? If so, do you know how dangerous this is to the computer and how to get rid of it?

An excellent article! with a great explanation on the technical side of this issue. On the question of Windows vs. Linux, Windows definitely has issues but Linux is NOT THE ANSWER. If Windows did not exists, we would not be commenting on this article. We would be AT LEAST 10 YEARS behind of where we are right now. Don't get me wrong, I love Linux but where practicality comes into play, Windows is the winner. Easier to maintain AND easier to install, Windows is one of the most important forerunners of the IT revolution. Linux is for power users but for those who are technically less inclined will never be able to succeed with Linux on their own. But with Windows, they are able to do so and they become more confident. In Linux if you encounter an error, then it could be 2 second fix or it could literally take months before you get your problem fixed (and that also can be a big IF).

All in all, excellent article. Users need to understand the need for security and Windows does need to be secure. I haven't tried Vista yet personally so I don't know how it is but XP was ok. I had a few virus issues but not nearly as much as compared to Win2K.

first i'm a Windows/linux guy/// been messing with these boxes back when there was no DOS !!!!

now to fix this there one answer going already (linux run from a cdrom) theres nothing to infect GREAT answer linux users.

now for Windows the fix is the same as with seatbelts in a car...the dumb users wouldn't use them so we fix so it won't go!!!! great idea!!!! but how???

EASY every time the dumb users log in to the net the computer must be updated and current with software patches etc. so this can't be got around use the new code system that new car remotes use (it gets a new code everytime it logs on)

oh sure this could be traped and hacked or could it
car mfg think its a good system....

Does it make any sense to name drop OS'es as the culprit? I believe the culprit are the code writers that exploit weaknessess in any form they can obtain, be it an OS, Java, ActiveX, or Plug-In. All have weaknesses. If you ALLOW or install anything you have no clue what it is, whose fault is it?
Most people that use the internet have NO clue what they install on their computer. Example: you hit a malicious website and you see a window that comes up indicating that your computer MAY be infected with a virus, (even though it is not), and install some malicious program that installs a bot of one kind or another.
I find it to be quite literally positively apalling. There are those that even go to the extreme of making their sites look like legitimate anti-spyware or anti-malware and you are given a "trial version" of their software and it says that you have something on your computer, (which is untrue), and you MUST purchase THIER software to remove it.
Yes, it's funny how everyone has to get into the profiteering market. As long as SOMEONE pays for it, everyone is happy, aren't they?
Is it fair that we have come to a day an age where this occurs? Who is to blame?
Remember when you are pointing your finger at someone, there are three others pointing back at yourself!

Seems to me that this has turned into an os mines better then yours is Blog. Good artical on the bot nets however the real issue is responsibality!! Most ppl dont want to take that cause they already have too much on their plate as it is. If we all stood up and took responsibality for our own issues instead of trying to blame everyone else the inet would be a much safer place for not only us but for our children as well. Wake up ppl

Oh well, when the glaciers melt and we are all dead in 15 years, this will be irrelevant, eh?

so what about the innocent people who just wanna be online and cause no harm , what are we supposed to do, give up the internet ? aint happening

linux? think first before you type, if you get enough people to use linux and the numbers are large enough to atract the so called bot-herders then you will be in the same boat, and thus get what you deserve.

You guys don't see this for what it really is, do you? The author of this article aimed this story at technologically incompetent people. Why do you think it's so easy to read? Uninformed people will buy into what the antivirus people mentioned in this article about it being safer to run your computer if you have 4 or 5 antivirus software programs running at once. Scaremongering is all it is. Competent users not only keep their AV programs up to date, but they also enable firewall programs on their computer and use a router with built in firewalls to connect to the Internet. But the best policy when you're not using your computer? Shut it off. KISS principle in action.

And BTW the reason i say those users of linux can tell and know more well i bet the writers of these things know even more so the reason they can keep their system safe is becuase they know how to utilize systems and things that arent marketed alot these ppl most likley will continue that trend if users all went to linux then they would prob pick something else that many dont use thats either smart and of reason or just plain lucky. In some ways it is smart to be so anti conformity and this is a reason right here but think about how limited you are in some ways as well. you have to know that stuff well before you can get something close to your result where as windows somethings already there to get just gotta find it which shouldnt be hard like games etc.

"I'm lucky. I use a Radio Shack TRS-80 with TWO 5 1/2 inch floppy drives. 10 Print "Bots" 20 Goto 10 RUN"

I remember those! We used to call them "trash 80's".

Alot of the fact is numbers if it takes 4 days to write something taht will infect millions of users as opposed to 10 thousand what would you do hmmm... also alot of the linux "safeness" is derived from the fact that users of this OS know more about computers and how to keep them safe and sound. How many ppl just buy what they hear is good alot i.e. Dell but how many of those ppl really know alot and would be able to use other things then whats sold. not many. and do you see linux sold often and as wide based as windows or even mac. no. if you do its cause youre into it all. a large amout of these ppl i can come to the assumption are ppl who buy a computer premade and use it to do simple things like surf etc. so whats it matter to them and in all honesty nothing can stop this ISP shutdowns etc not gunna work there will always be ppl to undo what someone has done protection will be unprotected as time goes on its life its evolution not any one thing is always better then another its better in a certain envionment and environments always change and are always different. So imo just let it be itll wear itself out to the next big scam or way to get more then you deserve for less work.

According to some posts I have heard about there,is another "gang" attacking the internet slimeball criminals. The "hacker hunters" claim to hunt down and beat the crap out of these worthless criminals.Hope this is true.

Any OS can be a bot.
I run Winows and Nix on my network.
Any computer no matter what its running?
Can become a Bot!

I'm surprised the linux bigots even found their way from their usual Slashdot haunt to MSNBC.

If and when linux becomes the dominant OS, then linux will be the primary target of hackers. Until then, go back to Slashdot. Your brand of vitriol is not welcome here.

Curious....so I can be hit on a media sharing website by a hacker to the point of hard drive kill?

Somebody aught crack these guys programs and rewrite them to attack themselves. Write viruses that distroy viruses.
You want to get rid of an online gang, write an online police force!
Antivirus software isn't enough. That works from the individual computer. Attack from the inside the way they attack eachother.

I agree and disagree with every statement in here. One and the biggest one I disagree with, IIS is actually the most widely used web service. Apache is just a "Easy to use web server" as it comes more secure out of the box. Microsoft is and always will be attacked because of how big it is. Linux/Unix running Apache will and always will be "attacked" if you're running them. The difference is how you're attacking. It is far more difficult to exploit Linux/Unix because, as I've already stated, it comes just a bit more secure out of the box. But it all boils down to the user. If the user is not protecting him/herself against any kind of attack, then that box is exploitable. It doesn't matter the OS, it doesn't matter what version, all that matters is what is being done to protect oneself against it. MAC took two steps foward and one step back with the integration of the UNIX core because now the GUI itself is the back door. Granted, patches will be written, and updates will be made, but the GUI creates more problems than it is useful. So, in closing. This is really a futile argument as people are going to use what they know, and they are only going to protect themselves to the level they understand. Have fun continuing the discussion.

You blame and put down Microsoft, but the truth is why attack anything with such a small market share (Apple/Linux)? Apple sale only went up after the company changed chips and were able to run Windows.

IT 101 > if you dont know what it is? Don't open it! If a person is not a part of your contact list? Why invite them! If it sounds to good to be true? Then it probably is!
If your computer is setup with just the default standard settings then you are at risk vs. a computer with a firewall and strong anti-virus (not a free version).

You don't just wake up and have your computer taken over. You as the user helped in some way for them to access it!

switching to Linux is not the easiest thing to do but probably the best thing to do.

Unfortunately Linux is not a fix all solution, and it is hard for windows user to use. If windows wasn't here it would be the Mac's or Linux getting the brunt of the attacks. Do not think your OS is unhackable because it is. It is just Windows out number the linux 10 to 1, so why go after something that is harder to hack. The more Linux numbers grow the more they inviting to a hacker. So unfortunately if Linux continues to grow it will reach the point that windows machines are at right now.

Sorry there is no fix all solution for hackers. Except stopping the hackers.

Sadly, like most bot-infested computer owners, most posters here have NO clue what this is about. This has ZERO to do with OS's, brand of hardware, or even type of device. However, this extremely complex situation does have some root problems, several of which have surfaced in comments.
Economics, numbers, laws and enforcement are the real issues here. If you took a poll of 100 people anywhere, anytime, asked them if they'd be interested in trading a 5% chance of spending 3-5 years in a white collar prison in exchange for a million (or 2m or 6m)dollars that they could keep when released, how many takers would you get? You may get a few who want to know what the crime is (selling marketing, ie: spam or extrorting gambling and porn site owners) but some won't even ask. How many of those takers are reasonably bright, yet dissafected, oppressed, otherwise not engaged in a positive capacity?
The point is this issue is very deep and powerful and not going away with a new Linux distro. My guess is this issue gets much worse before businesses start to exert some pressure on their gov'ts to step up global law enforcement, make new badly written laws and a affect some real change. IOW: don't hold your breathe and make sure you hire good IT folks and not just some dissafected and oppressed bright person.

I am tracking the IP address of each person commenting and I am going to enslave your machines! Then you will think twice before speaking out against S(-)|3Z3|2(o)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The whole Linux and MAC thing is a joke because if we switched all the windows users over who dont know how to use there PC's already then the same problems would be repeated. The fact is most people who don't care about PC's dont take care of them. This is what causes these things to happen. Lack of knowledge so if you put everyone on a Linux or MAC box they would be more lost then they are now.

The user who said that linux/macs are more secure because their users are more sophisticated is right. And yet undermines their entire point at the same time. Assuming this statement is true; then it just means that the problem isn't the OS it's the users. So you can't blame windows, blame the users.

The linux/mac users who aren't sophisticated get to temporarily hide behind the "security by obscurity" mantra. They won't get attacked because the virus writers just don't care about them. If the market share were reversed, then you'd have the same problem because you'd have the same unsophisticated users who are currently running windows that would now be running linux/mac.

If you put linux/mac on a machine and then never install AV or update patches/kernal then you are exposed and will eventually get infected because even if a patch is issued it won't do you any good until you install it.

linux is a lil bit safer than windows but are a lot of exploits who can get you inside :) so just use a firewall , use seagate free is a 10 stars product :)

What a funny article, I enjoyed the parody between these online gangs and a real gang.

How did this turn into a Microsoft vs. Mac and Linux battle?

If anything, the bot issue needs to be addressed, because people are not only utilizing these bots for hacking computers, bots are being used to click on ads, spam people, etc...

It might be prudent for computer users to learn more about their machines and the operating systems. Then again, major corporations and their IT gurus also get hacked, and seriously.
The problem is that criminals have always been several steps ahead of the security-types. These hackers live and breathe computers. It's hard to keep up with such single-minded dedication.
The answer might be to make the penalty more severe than they want to risk.....take them out to the dumpster and shoot them. Broadcast it live on the Net.

Very interesting debate about Mac/Linux vs MS--Windows. Reminiscant of the Catterpillar tractor owners talking about what is better Oval tracks vs high drive. When is all said and done it is a circular arguement.

There are a number of relavant points. There are bot nets and they are being commanded by a number of groups that are adverse to your pocket book. There is a lot of money to be made. Users, manufacturers of software and hardware and ISP's and the government all share culpability and responsiblity for the problems.

What is not referenced is the impact that the bot nets can have as to the security of any nation state.

The bot nets are something that can be used to attack the very core of the governmental functions of any modern nation state. The Chinese have been quoted saying that they want to with the next war on the information front and this recently published in the Wall Street Journal.

So there is a governmental and national security interest in wanting to get all the bot nets shut down and to protect the national computing infastructure. To do that that will mean restrictions and controls on how computers are used. This will get the civil libertarians a bit excited. To some this may smack as an invasion of privacy and or loss of freedom. I wonder what is more important you home and nation or your unfettered freedom to use the internet.

Here is an interesting arguement; in the US there is the Patriot Act, If you have an infected computer and that computer is controled by a foreign interest or any interest for that matter that is adverse to the interests of the US governement, then by inferance your computer is aiding and abeting hostile foreign interests or anti-government forces. If that aiding and abetting gives them dollars to fund their activites then you are as guilty as though you were a direct participant in the activity. That aiding and abetting applies to the user, the manufacture of the software and hardware and ISP.

So that means for every fix that lets say a prominent OS vendor fails to put out there, that could allow for a bot net controlled computer to exist, they are both directly and indirectly aiding and abbetting criminal activities--and possibly terrorism. Thus they should be obligated to provide the fixs for as long as there is viable population of a particular OS still in the public domain. It is a matter of national survival.

The fix is very tough and may well be painful but the stakes are too high not to honestly consider them and act in a prudent manner.

Every citizen has a moral and ethical obligation to make sure that the computer is fully secured and that they follow best practices and to demand this from the vendors of their software, hardware and ISP.

The last comment is that anyone who things that there computer is secure should be very careful. As noted by HD Moore last July, he found and publised various issues and exploits with ActiveX that had been exploited by the Russian mafia for the last two years. Noone knew, that is noone outside of the Russian Mafia knew this till HD Moore published it. OOPS. There was just a report three weeks ago about a virus that eluded AV types since Dec 2006 and thats what when they think it came out. Interesting thing was it packaged up your personal data for auction by the bad guys.

So the poposition and postion that you think you computer is secure may well be very false.

unix and mac created this bot.

I took a digital logic curriculum in college and all my professors were quick to admit that Linux/Unix is far superior to Windows. Although my area of expertise is not in programming, I do have many friends that work in the field. They run several machines in their homes with every OS out there. They assure me that Mac is the way to go. I feel that Apple may have fell weak to marketing pressure and opened a possible vulnerability with the Intel chipset, but time will tell. It requires diligence and study to stay "savy" in the evolving electronic World. It's a shame that we have to stay on guard so much to just turn on computer.

I took a digital logic curriculum in college and all my professors were quick to admit that Linux/Unix is far superior to Windows. Although my area of expertise is not in programming, I do have many friends that work in the field. They run several machines in their homes with every OS out there. They assure me that Mac is the way to go. I feel that Apple may have fell weak to marketing pressure and opened a possible vulnerability with the Intel chipset, but time will tell. It requires diligence and study to stay "savy" in the evolving electronic World. It's a shame that we have to stay on guard so much to just turn on computer.

It must be fun to talk about computer crime although the real problem is Everyone and every Politician in the U.S.A. thinks Baghdad's insurgency is bad but you all only need to look at any big city in the U.S.A. and the gangs that terrorize the neiborhoods and streets but the politicians do nothing they don't even talk about it in their political campaigns. beware i say because these gangs are watching the news and learning how to create terror and havoc with IED's most gangs right now have better weapons then our police forces around America, i have every reason to believe these gangs will start attacking Police stations and shopping malls this summer just to show how powerful they have become. we need a new law that states if anyone is associated, flashes a gang sign, has a tattoo or admits to being a part of a gang then they should be charged with terrorism because the only reason they are in gangs is to hurt or kill somebody. gangs exist for one reason only to hurt, kill and terrorize our society. somebody please declare war on the gang terrorist here in America before its too late.

Just a thought. Maybe if some of the large ISP's would actually firewall their networks and would actually shut down spammers when they receive complaints the situation would get better. Most of the spam I get is coming from large US ISP's like Verizon, Charter and RoadRunner. There are tools that these ISP's could run to shut down accounts that are infected. Why isn't there more pressure being put on them to do their part? I take my hat off to Yahoo, MSN, AOL and Hotmail ALL of which respond to and shut down spammers accounts.

We ALL have a responsibility to keep our OS'S patched and run anti-virus software or get off the net.

Let's take this out of the tech world and put it into commmon sense terms everyone can relate to. If you park your car on the street of any big city and leave some valubles and the keys in it, someone is going to steal it! Is it the car manufacturer's you didn't lock your car? Regardless of the system, if you don't lock it down someone is going to steal your valuble resources.

Okay maybe I'm just really illiterate but what does "locking-down" your computer mean?

If that and firewalls and anti-virus software are what we need, how do I lock down my computer? Is it easy? Is it something I was supposed to have been taught? Obviously (from the comments) its a manual thing, my computer doesn't do it for me?

Could someone please explain this to me? Thank you.

"Want to end the 'Bot' problem?? Run Linux!!! Linux is generally immune to the Malware that is the bane of the M$ user.
If you insist on running insecure M$ crapware then you get what you deserve!"

Interesting attitude there, Ms. Stuart. Lets do a simple experiment to see how true you feel that concept is. We'll check you for double standards, logic, and ignorance at the same time...

We'll take key words and concepts out and replace them with alternatives. If you still feel that the statement is true (which I doubt will happen), then I suspect you to be fundamentally ignornant. If the statement rings untrue to you after the change up, we'll go with merely illogical and supporting a double standard...

On to the experiment.

We'll replace the concept of "computer OS usage" with "wearing slutty clothes" and the concept of "bots and Malware" with "rape".

"Want to end the rape problem? Wear conservative clothes! Conservative clothing is generally immune to the rape that is the bane of the sluttly clothes wearer.
If you insist on wearing slutty clothes then you get what you deserve!"

Well? How do you feel about the new statement?

Computers are just tools,regardless of the operating system. Being "more computer literate " is not required to browse the web or use a word processor.
There is no safe code,just like no are no locks that can't be opened.

The hackers are the people that hate the system the most and abuse it all because of : microsoft , the goverment , your os , or who ever is dominating the market at the time. What will happen is that as always "WE THE PEOPLE" will lose the freedom of the internet by requesting some goverment to regulate it and screw it up even more. It takes more than one person to pull off a "bank job".So the next time Mr. Hacker you want to:get back at your neighbor;your rivel;microsoft;the goverment;or whom ever you hate at that moment,you are also taking away your freedom that allows you to roam the internet as you please. It is always the few that screw it up for the rest of us!

Why would anyone think that an open source OS such as Linux was flawless to begin with.

As for me, I know my computer's being used for this war. It constantly freezes up on me at random intervals of time.

Example A: Just two weeks ago, my computer opened up programs that I had no clue what they were, and then I lost control of my mouse. I had to unplug my computer to get it to stop, and then when I plugged it back in and logged back on, it did it again, except not only did it open these unknown programs, MS Word opened up and typed up a message that basically told me not to unplug my computer again unless I wanted to lose my computer permanently.

Example B: Last night, I lost control of my computer again, except the program was in obvious Chinese. I unplugged it and it's staying unplugged for awhile until I can get a hold of a copy of Linux Redhat or Windows Vista.

I don't know know which OS is best or more secure and I don't beleive it is the main issue. I agree with Michael O'Shea. Let's stop blaming the "dumb" people and start making an effort to educate the public. The crime is wrong and should be stopped. Until we can find a way to do that, if ever, there needs to be a campaign to inform the public of what is going on. Many of us buy computers for our kids to use who often need to use the internet to do homework assignments. Most of us are totally unaware of all this behind the scenes crime going on. If the public is made aware they will know to take some kind of action against it. It should be the responsiblity of computer companies, software designers, and retailers to make sure that the person buying a new computer is made aware, and has some kind of support to protect their investment. I have an AV and spyware program running on my computer but was not given a class on how to configure it to best suit my needs. I feel like, to the salesperson who intstalled it, it was a sale for them and that was the end of their responsibilty. I think it would benefit us all if more of an effort was made to protect us from ourselves. We are after all only human.

"Mac's are EASIER to hack then windows."

So how is it that there has not been a single successful virus since the first version of OS X was released in March of 2001? I mean, you would think there would be at least one, with it being so easy and all, just for fun.

Compare that to the hundreds of thousands of Windows virii.

Linux causes cancer.

If they stop your computer from being infected by any other virus while they use is, and they lay dormant, they can use my computer anytime. If a person doesn't know their computer is hyjacked, that means it's not doing anything to interupted what they're doing on their computer, basically it's like having the best computer protection ever!

I read the comments about Windows being the problem, Linux and Macs having a smaller footprint in the market, but most web servers are Linux-based. So, Windows has 90% of the home consumer market, while Linux has 90% of the web server market. The reason why I mention web servers and not Domain servers is because a Domain server is usually run separately from the web, so there's not a huge risk of compromization.

The point that I'm trying to make is that web servers are hacked regularly, some have open ports that can lead to administrative (root) control. These servers can typically be Linux servers, which shuts down the theories that Linux doesn't get hacked and doesn't get viruses. Keep in mind when you make those comments that Linux can be hacked, sometimes more easily, than Windows.

The main difference is that Linux servers (which is what Linux is mainly used for) are run by companies with IT personnel or people who have an extensive knowledge in computing. Windows OSes are usually run by the average Joe who doesn't have the time or patience to deal with internet security because they have 2 kids, a mortgage, a car payment, bills, and a regular job that doesn't involve the innerworkings of computers.

Don't blame Windows for producing a system that has some security holes. Don't think Linux is any more secure. Blame the people who produce these viruses (trojans, worms, bots, etc.) for making illegal software, and blame the international government for not being able to do anything about it.

Do you think burning all computers,
going back to school and starting over,
might help?
Come to think of it,
they could then call it
the modern-age "inquisition"!!!

If someone is using my computer to make a profit then I want a cut. I want a security system that bills the hijackers before giving up access.

Man, a whole lot of people are getting all over Linus' case. Why would anyone want to hurt that cute little cartoon kid? He's just an innocent little...what...oh...Linux...never mind.

There is no way to prevent ahacker from taking over you computer if he really wants to do it. All Antvirus programs can defend agaist are the automated spam viruses. If you COmputer is specifically targeted and attacked by a hacker sitting at his computer, even prayers wont help you. Linux, Mac, WIndows, doesnt matter. HOwever, Windows is slightly more susceptible to spam viruses.

"just turn the flipin thing off when your not using it"

some of the best advice there is ^^^^^^

Being an unbiased PC user if anyone knows anything about PC's Linux is safer. With Windows everything is embedded to the Kernel. So if someone hacks Explorer then they have access to the Kernel. In linux the Kernel is seperate from the programs. Hince if something is hacked into then the hacker has to take extra steps to get into the system. If you dont know what the kernel is..look it up.

Where is the FBI to arresst all these cyber net criminal, instead to get all the computer user infected by virus. Put all these criminal away in prision with no plead.

"This is why military warships and nuclear submarines run Windows for their command and control systems and not Linux...Thsoe guys look at the hard facts."
-- no one, nowhere

This is wrong I spent 4 years in the navy on an air craft carrier and worked as an admin on theses systems and they were all HP-UX unix with custom modifications. The gov't does look at hard facts and the fact is that they don't use windows.

As far computer security goes, your computer is only as safe as the dumbest user on the system. User stupidity trumps security any day.

So, maybe the Amish have the right idea after all?

It's funny how you go from one subject to an entirely different subject. "It's the OS's fault."
Get back to the subject. I have never read so much argument over whose OS is better or more secure over a subject that affects all of us.
Instead of bickering, why not find a solution?

The problem stems from people wanting to stay ignorant of their world. They wish they could stay isolated from this interconnected world and believe that the problems will go away if they are ignored.

They couldn't be more ignorant of the truth if it was staring them in the face.

This is just the consequences of living in a world where we are always connected to each other. All we have to do is keep our anti-virus software and operating systems up to date and a dent will be put in this problem.

But people are too stupid, ignorant, and foolish to do that. So the spammers have themselves a world full of easy targets and servants.

http://feeds.feedburner.com/thecellphonedisconnect

The only way that someone could get all your personal info is if its on the computer in the first place maybe Don Schaeffer doesn't rely on his PC to monitor every aspect of his life and to compair hacking to hitler is just plain laughable. Windows OSX Linux firewall no firewall anti-virus or not some wants into your PC they can do it. The fact is that if your woried about your personal information being stolen don't use the PC to do your banking get off your ass and go down to the bank and do it. And as for the comments about terroist well its time you yankees slacked off on that not every criminal has terroist links or ties