When crime called, cell phone was silent
Posted: Friday, October 5 at 05:00 am CT by Bob Sullivan
Orde Kittrie was mugged in broad daylight on a street in Baltimore. The criminals took the money in his wallet, grabbed his cell phone and walked away.
Within hours, Kittrie was working with law enforcement to track down his robbers using cell phone records. But weeks would pass before even law enforcement officials could get a glimpse of the documents, likely dooming Kittrie’s case to become just another data point in the unsolved crime statistics.
The rate of such muggings has suddenly skyrocketed. Last year, there were 447,000 robberies in the U.S., a striking rise of 7.2 percent from the previous year, according to FBI crime data released last month. Most of them get away scot-free, as Kittrie's muggers apparently have.
While there is no national accounting of stolen cell phones, a handset is taken in most such attacks, law enforcement officials say. Couldn't those phones offer valuable clues, particularly if the criminals are foolish enough to make calls with the hot handset?
The unfortunate answer is "Yes, but ...."
Kittrie, a law professor at the University of Maryland, knows that better than most victims. He had reason to believe the thieves did use his phone, and he called his provider, Sprint, right away to get updated calling records.
He was still waiting a month later.
"The two people who robbed me may well be walking around, free to rob others or worse, because Sprint (couldn't) bring itself to release this key evidence," he said. "I wonder how many other robberies are going unsolved across the country for similar reasons."
Kittrie’s story opens a small window into the problem of using cell phone records to investigate crimes. Carriers must walk a fine line between protecting consumers' privacy -- remember the controversy last year surrounding stolen cell phone records? -- and helping law enforcement.
Some investigations end happily thanks to cell phone records. That’s how police located Tanya Rider, the Seattle-area woman who lay undiscovered in a ditch for eight days after a car accident last month.
But not every crime is a murder, and not every police inquiry is a life or death situation.
Still, Kittrie's story shows the system sometimes doesn't work at all.
When Kittrie went to police the afternoon of Aug. 26, he says they recommended he avoid canceling his cell phone service for 24 hours in case the criminals used the phone to make a call, which could lead them to the thieves.
A risky strategy
That sounds like a solid crime-fighting strategy, but it can be risky for the consumer. Cell phone providers require subscribers to pay for any unauthorized calls made using a stolen phone before the theft is reported. Earlier this year, a California television station reported that several consumers forced to pay bills of thousands of dollars after their phones were stolen.
Kittrie was lucky. A Sprint operator told him that a single nine-minute call, on the morning of Aug. 27, was made with his phone after it was stolen. But he was denied access to any other details about the call. That tantalizing piece of evidence led him on a month-long quest.
Call records can be vital in a robbery investigation. Police can easily find a call recipient, visit the potential witness, and ask who called. If the recipient is a relative or accomplice, tracking down the criminal is often simple. And the evidence for prosecution is strong.
But as time passes, the quality of cell-phone leads diminishes. Asking even a willing witness who called at a particular time a month ago rarely yields a fruitful answer.
Kittrie made his first request for updated calling records just a day after the crime, but was rebuffed by Sprint customer service. The firm told him he couldn't access detailed calling records until an entire monthly billing cycle had passed and an itemized bill was generated. Instead, he was then told to make his request through law enforcement.
The Baltimore detectives told him they'd request the records, but urged Kittrie to try Sprint again, saying he could probably get the records more quickly himself.
He tried repeatedly, but he got nowhere. Meanwhile, the Baltimore State Attorney's Office issued a subpoena for the records on Sept. 5.
Online billing records cut off
Kittrie tied another method, suggested by one Sprint operator. He tried to log on to his Web-based customer service account for the phone. That proved futile, however, as he'd disabled the phone by then and his access to online billing records also was cut off.
One month after the robbery, he still had nothing.
A representative from the Baltimore prosecutor’s office confirmed the basic details of Kittrie's account, but refused to comment on it, saying it is against policy to discuss an open investigation.
But the official said it is customary to wait anywhere from two to six weeks for cell phone companies to respond to such records requests. He called such delays understandable.
"Imagine how many requests they get every day," he said. "They don't make any money generating these records."
But Sprint spokesman Matt Sullivan said the company can turn around law enforcement records requests "within a few hours." A subpoena is not required, he said.
"As long as they have the customer's authorization, they can get customer records within hours," Sullivan said. He said Sprint processes "thousands" of such calls every month.
Consumers, however, can't initiate such requests. They must call the standard customer support phone number, where operators there do not have access to "real-time" billing records, Sullivan said.
There's a good reason to hide those records from operators. Last year, Congress investigated a thriving underground business in stolen cell phone records, obtained by private investigators who lied about their identities to get them. After a scandal involving Hewlett-Packard officials who allegedly paid to spy on journalists' cell phone activity, providers clamped down on availability of the data, said Joe Farren, spokesman for CTIA, and cellular telephone trade association.
Records were 'too easily accessible'
"The debate a year ago was that the call records were too easily accessible," Farren said. "If a subscriber had trouble getting call records, in a sense that's a good thing. ... All reports are the subpoena process works well. Of course, there are 240 million subscribers in the U.S., so there are always going to be a few problems."
All carriers follow a process like Sprint's, Farren said. None publicizes their special law enforcement hot line or the process for getting records quickly to avoid tipping off would-be data thieves.
"But generally, law enforcement officials at major carriers know the number," said Sprint's Sullivan.
Detectives investigating Kittrie's case eventually got the law professor's phone records -- on Oct. 3, about five weeks after his initial request. The records indicate the muggers actually made three calls with his phone, Kittrie said. But it's not clear how much help those records will be at this point.
"I am exceedingly frustrated," Kittrie said. "If this is happening all over the country, and I have no reason to believe it is not, it is a scandal and major contributor to the failure to solve many, many robberies and cell phone thefts."
RED TAPE WRESTLING TIPS
While there are no reliable estimates of the number of cell phone thefts, anecdotal reports -- and reports from law enforcement officials in other countries -- suggest phone theft is rampant. There are many things consumers should know about it.
Survey: Banks scarier than criminals for many
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They can hand over your cell phone records to the Federal government without a search warrant or subpeona and then they have the nerve to ask for immunity from prosecution for their crimes, but they can't hand over records to the customer who is paying the bill in order to help solve a real crime. Disgusting. These telecom companies have entirely too much power. We need campaign finance reform to solve problems like this, otherwise the telecoms will continue getting away with murder.
PAI, Pittsburgh, PA (Sent Oct 30, 2007 12:50:24 PM)
"What's wrong with law enforcement today?" someone asked above. Here's the answer. The Law can't be bothered to help you get your phone back because they're too busy:
--Hiding in the bushes with a radar gun hoping to catch some desperate criminal soccer mom driving her minivan at 45 in a 40;
--Posing as hookers (and hiding out in motel rooms with thousands of dollars of taxpayer-funded surveillance equipment) to catch lonely and desperate men engaging in things their fat and ugly and surly wives won't do for them at home;
--Busting young teenagers for the heinous crime of skateboarding;
--Posing as buyers to procure a fraction of an ounce of a dried weed so they can ruin some kid's life (a weed, by the way, that many of them use on their days off);
--Of course, hanging out at the Denny's ogling the waitress.
Bitter? Me? Never!
Jim Pettit, Naples, FL (Sent Oct 30, 2007 12:22:55 PM)
I have used Sprint for many years. About 2 years ago I had a stalker that contacted me by phone 133 times in 39 days! My bill only shows "incoming call" and no number. When my phone would ring it would only say PRIVATE. I wouldn't answer my phone most of the time and finally got fed up with the whole affair, I went to the police and they had the prosecuting attorney send a subpoena to Sprint. It took several weeks to get the requested information that I thought was rightfully mine to begin with. If "you" call "me" it should be listed on "my" bill not just "incoming call". A little cooperation wouldn't hurt either since I pay the bill and not the people who call me. I understand protecting the public but what about customer satisfaction? How do you think your company got where it is and where do you think your paycheck comes from? SATISFIED CUSTOMERS!!!
Alice Jones, Springfield, Mo (Sent Oct 23, 2007 5:57:57 PM)
OK........heres the deal. If they make YOU pay for any unauthorized calls, why would it be in THEIR best interest to help? STOLEN cell phones are very often used for immigrants to call their home country for a set fee from Thief. Example...I steal your cell phone then go to a predominantly Mexican area and let anyone who wants to, call home to mexico for say.........10 minutes and charge them 20 bucks per call. Thief makes thousands....cell company makes YOU pay....... good deal huh? Why WOULD they help? They must make gazillions every year by NOT helping!
(Sent Oct 23, 2007 4:49:54 PM)
I had my vehicle broken into and my cell phone stolen a few years back. It was the next morning when I realized it. I called the police, and the phone provider, who told me "Yes, the phone was used last night, at about 2 a.m., and here are the phone numbers that were called." I gave the numbers to the police, saying "This should be easy enough... go knock on their door (local calls) and ask them who called at 2 a.m. this morning." The police never followed up on it. It wasn't important enough to them. I practically HANDED them the thieves, and nothing ever happened with it.
(Sent Oct 23, 2007 4:39:43 PM)
Can aynyone tell me where I can find good tires fo my car??
I live in Nepal.
snolummorse (Sent Oct 22, 2007 4:40:31 PM)
Do you have a book of stupid puns, iCrime wtf, WHEN CRIME CALLED, CELL PHONE WAS SILENT, who is your publisher you need to be slapped
Mike Hawk (Sent Oct 19, 2007 12:27:02 PM)
That's so lame. I actually was thinking about getting a Sprint™ Phone. Because they have really great phones and also great, service. But this one got me thinking.
(Sent Oct 19, 2007 11:19:54 AM)
So we gave up protections from government in the name of Terrorism, and yet the government 'protects' us from our own cellphone records?
Heckuva joerb Republicans! The PATRIOT act benefits only those in power.
I swear, my citizenship is a business relationship and that is IT. There is nothing special about this country anymore...full of fat ignorant religious tools who froth for war and live on the dole. It's a crying shame.
Sean, Torrington CT (Sent Oct 19, 2007 11:18:59 AM)
Today's technology would allow for first-line CSRs to be able to click a button on their screens to have records mailed or e-mailed to a customer without the CSR actually having to see them. Then you get both privacy protection AND quick service. These records should be also available on companies' websites as archival information well after a line is cancelled. It doesn't take a genius to think of this stuff, so why is nobody doing it? Customers should have a right to obtain records immediately for any reason, or no reason.
LV (Sent Oct 9, 2007 12:41:08 PM)
I had my phone stolen and had NO PROBLEM working with Sprint Customer service the very next day in getting a list of numbers called. I do not know why he had to wait a month. But then again, it was one of the very few times I git anything good out of Sprint CUSTOMER NO SERVICE.
Gerald Ford, Atlanta, GA (Sent Oct 9, 2007 10:53:02 AM)
It seems this "Sprint" issue is turning into a "Police" bashing session. As a cellphone user, I too have problems with the carrier, but if I don't like the service, it is my choice to stay or leave.
As for Law Enforcement, maybe you should spend some time in thier shoes before you bash them. Go to a citizens academy, go on a ride along, hang out with a Detective for a day. You may realize that cops are doing a great job with the resources they have.
As for those of you who "say" your phone was stolen, how many of you just plain old lost it and could not get anywhere with the provider without a police report? When you call to report it lost, you find out this is not a crime so you call back later to report it stolen, or better yet, shop around for an agency that will take your "false" report.
Listen folks, we live in a world today where the bad guy has more rights and liberties then the cops your are bashing on this blog. It's a shame there isn't more trust in those who protect you.
And by the way, most phones can be real-time tracked through GPS and cell tower usage, but if you don't read the details of your phone when you get it, how would you know this. But I bet you know how to download a hip-hop song as your ring tone !!!
Bottom line, give cops a break, know your phone, and if you have a problem, help find a solution, don't become a bigger part of the problem.
(Sent Oct 9, 2007 10:21:03 AM)
I had this happen to me in 2005 when I was robbed and my cell phone stolen. I used my phone records and T-Mobile's assistance to trace every single number that was called by them. They even called the jail! In less than a week I had two violent offenders behind bars and both were sentanced to 12 years having to serve a minimum of 6 before being considered for parole.
Thanks to my efforts of tracking everything down I recovered everything but my wedding ring, which is the one thing I wanted the most.
Jane Doe, Sugar Land, TX (Sent Oct 9, 2007 9:27:00 AM)
my daughter was being phone-stalked and her boyfriend's life was threatened by someone calling from an 'anonymous' line. our cell phone company told us that short of a court order, they couldn't identify the caller or even ascertain what phone # was being called from - not necessarily one owned by the stalker. this situation has gone on for months. the stalker calls from time to time, just often enough to scare my daughter - and always right after she has returned to her college campus. we know who the stalker is - and that he is NOT in her geographic location - but even the police can't do anything (they say) because they don't know what jurisdiction the caller is in? duh! wouldn't they chase a bank robber if he left their jurisdiction? this is truly frustrating - and yes, she's tried changing her phone # to no avail.
(Sent Oct 8, 2007 8:20:17 PM)
did none of you idiots who keep saying check your online account info read the article. it clearly says that when he reported the phone stolen they shut off his online account access and his phone at the same time so he couldnt check it.
(Sent Oct 8, 2007 6:49:14 AM)
MMh, lets see, tracking stolen phone to recoup some $200.00 stolen from victim, say 100 for the phone, use may be 2 officers for what? 3 to 4 days at at least $20.00 an hr. = 960 dlls, net ot police dept. $0, use those officer to set speed traps instead of catching criminals, priceless! (And they say they care about us and are here to protect us)
Carlos (Sent Oct 8, 2007 12:18:13 AM)
When my Sprint phone was stolen (in Tacoma, WA) Katrina was destroying the Southern states. There were calls made to New Orleans which I understood (and did have to pay for), but what got me were the downloadable ring tones. I fought and fought and finally Sprint agreed I should not have to pay the .99 cents. I was just fed up. I now have Sprint still (they locked us into a contract), but I did get the last laugh--I use my husband's old phone and he went onto a better company.
Lucy Tacoma WA (Sent Oct 7, 2007 9:17:36 PM)
Oh please, all the cell companies suck.
We got our money (>$500) back from TMobile after my husband's phone was stolen. Of course, it took over 9 months, 3 States Attorneys, 3 BBBs, and a very persistent husband. And TMobile is full of crap - "real time" my butt, maybe for call records but not when the thief downloads tons of games and ringtones. My husband read the contract (which matched the one online) to TMobile several times, they repeatedly read him a different contract. The police never did anything and we knew when and where it was stolen. Oh well, we moved from that community for a reason.
Be persistent, very persistent.
And I don't think that the police look at ID theft as a real crime - My father's caretaker stole his ID after he died (heck, maybe before, she stole all sorts of his stuff before he died) and the Glendale, AZ police department still hasn't called us back. That was in June. Of course it didn't help that the police GAVE HER HIS WALLET!!!!! (Let's see, find dead body, do you really hand over the wallet to someone who walks onto the scene when others will tell you that the deceased has relatives that will claim him and his stuff?)
ML, Wisconsin (Sent Oct 7, 2007 8:51:03 PM)
What the carriers would like you to do if you survived a mugging and your cell phone was stolen is, for you buy a brand new phone, transfer your number on that phone and get you on another 2 yr. contract. I wonder if there is a conspiracy going on here. The carriers might be encouraging muggers to steal cell phones so they can sell more to their existing customers, they get nothing if the crime is solved. Hhhmmm...
Conpiracy Theorist in California (Sent Oct 7, 2007 4:31:40 PM)
Several commenters have asked why Professor Kittrie did not access his call records online. As the story notes, he "tried to log on to his Web-based customer service account for the phone" but that "proved futile" as online access to the call records was suspended by Sprint at the same time Sprint suspended service to the phone. In other words, Sprint shuts off online access to call records for phones that have been suspended.
(Sent Oct 5, 2007 3:27:26 PM)
So far I've had cell phone coverage with a number of companies and with each and every one of them, I was able to access my account online and get a printout of all my cell phone calls in/out!
Everyone should know this is an option for them if the situation ever arises.
(Sent Oct 5, 2007 3:08:18 PM)
"Too easily accessible?" To the owners of the phone? Why not just make call records (at least RECENT call records) available online using the same login as the billing system? The owner of the phone can view them at any time, and law enforcement can still request them...in fact it would probably be EASIER if it were already set up to be easily-but-securely displayed.
Ian, Kingman AZ (Sent Oct 5, 2007 2:44:19 PM)
Police draw chalk lines. Why does anyone even still live in Baltimore City? High crime, drugs, terrible schools and obscene taxes.
Move to Pennsyltucky (PA), get a CCW permit and not Only Feel Safer, but actually BE safer.
Noah Bodi (Sent Oct 5, 2007 1:24:17 PM)
i hate sprint
(Sent Oct 5, 2007 1:22:40 PM)
I appreciate the frustration reported here, but I am as confused as a few of the commentors. I have an AT&T cell family plan. I also have web access to my own account which includes phones for my wife, two kids, and myself. With the online access I can see my phone calls, including number for all calls up to the day. (I haven't actually timed the delay, but it is definitely less than 24 hours). So, if any of the 4 phones on my account were stolen, I'd need less than 24 hours, and certainly no additional help from AT&T to discover all the calls that had been made since the phone was stolen.
I understand that the police may or may not be interested in my supporting detective work, but that is a municipal issue, not a phone company issue
(Sent Oct 5, 2007 1:20:23 PM)
The problem is SPRINT. They do not care about their customers. The same is true about ATT.
(Sent Oct 5, 2007 1:16:03 PM)
Welcome to free market capitalism. The philosophy in some camps is that the best will rise to the top because of competition not regulation. That's BS. Quite frankly, WE are all to blame. We want everything but don't want to pay. We want lower taxes and wonder why the infrastructure is crumbling. We want cheaper prices for products so companies search out countries with the cheapest labor and therefore least oversight (toy recall anybody?). Just about everyone is in a 401k or the stock market in some form or fashion so we want our stock to go up. That means cutting services and staff to reduce costs to maximize profits to pay dividends to increase stock value,,, etc., ad nausea. You want cheap you get cheap. But in the mean time upper management up their bonuses while jobs are out-sourced.
So when the revolution comes..........
Peter, BR, NJ (Sent Oct 5, 2007 12:56:18 PM)
My cell phone was stolen from a hotel and I went to the sprint store to get my records. The cleaning lady that stole it called her family several times and I figured out her name from that. The hotel paid me for the cell phone, because she threw it away, and they turned her into police. The only reason I was able to track them down was because of the nice person at the store. Customer support couldn't have cared less.
(Sent Oct 5, 2007 12:55:23 PM)
This is why I use T Mobile - real time billing information online within 30 minutes of a call made from your phone. www.tmobile.com and then check your current cycle billing tab.
(Sent Oct 5, 2007 12:51:34 PM)
It get's even better! A number of years ago I made the mistake of leaving my cell phone in my car in my yard oovernight. In the morning I woke to find that my small back window had been broken and someone had tried to jimmy the ignition lock trying to steal my car. They were not successful however at three in the morning likely the time they were trying to steal the car) they made three calls from my phone (I also could not get the info for a month)to the same number for a number of minutes each. One can only visualize them calling their cohort, and asking for instructions on how to break the lock while they sat in the car). Although anyone with sense would have contacted the number that was called and find out who had called them...(Imagne them telling the police that they didn't know who called them at three in the morning three times for two to three minutes each time.) Neither law enforcement nor the phone company would help in any way. There was a lot of discussion about how it might violate the rights of someone (not me of course).
Denny Chattanooga TN (Sent Oct 5, 2007 12:42:14 PM)
US Cellular had no problem giving me a number that I had called the day before and forgot - I knew what time it was that I had called and they gave it to me over the phone after asking a few security questions. I also asked for a copy of all phone calls in the last month and I received it within a few days.
j hill, cedar falls, iowa (Sent Oct 5, 2007 12:29:54 PM)
I wonder how many police precincts actually have the carriers' police "hotline". It's a good idea, but in reality I suspect many police are calling the same consumer customer service number that the public all. Note Sprint said that major carriers have the official number, it makes more sense if all precincts have the number - sounds error in the statement, but it makes you wonder.
Mark Wright, San Jose, CA (Sent Oct 5, 2007 12:15:08 PM)
I agree with Amy, only have gone even further, NO cell phone, No ATM, One credit card left at home.... carry only enough money to get me help...phone, taxi, etc....usually less than twenty dollars..
A Tokarz, Lowell, Indiana (Sent Oct 5, 2007 12:03:32 PM)
'They don't make any money by providing the records.' What kind of excuse is that? Providing excellent customer service and generating great PR would be a great way to increase sales. morons.
(Sent Oct 5, 2007 11:55:15 AM)
Baltimore as well as other cities have a masive spike in violent crimes. This is not something that is new. Everyone says "the police don't do anything about real crime in our city" but where do you draw the line? If you are so upset with the police system in your city, call your local legislators and ask them for more money for the police force. Their are only enough resources they can expend. No one understands what they go thru unless they are police or family of the police. Do you go to a job where you could get killed at anytime? Take some initiative and call Gov. O'Malley, let him know that you were robbed and that he should keep a better eye on the city that launched his political career...
Chris (Sent Oct 5, 2007 11:46:00 AM)
I'm really starting to feel better about ditching my cell phone!
Ami, Cedar Rapids, IA (Sent Oct 5, 2007 11:36:49 AM)
Sprint was not cooperative with us. Of course, we were trying to deal with someone who couldn't speak English very well and although they said they were reporting the phone as stolen (don't you trust they are doing that?)it was not reported properly and a month later we had to call and talk to another person who could not speak English very well to say it was supposed to be turned off as it was stolen(it was my elderly mom's phone that had never had more than 5 min a month on it and now it was a $2000 charge, which was basically the only proof she didn't run up those charges or that we had called a month earlier). The police did not seem concerned that we had all these calls and phone numbers they could trace, or that the money we had to pay for the bill (they made us pay it, then later reimbursed us for some of the charges). They eventually caught the person as they had paid a bail bondsman and a picture was taken of them after months of writing bad checks at the local grocery store (my mom used this same store how ironic).The store never caught on to the bounced checks because the bank kept messing up and paying the checks because of the way they left the acct open for the "good" checks, etc. It was a nightmare that could have been solved a lot earlier if the police and phone company could have collaborated and the bank and grocery store actually used caution and wisdom.
(Sent Oct 5, 2007 11:35:58 AM)
Cell phone companies dont care about stolen phones. why you ask---YOU HAVE TO BUY A NEW ONE!!___ It's a profit when a customer has to replace a phone, some in excess of $200+. It's all about the money people, it's always about the money!
mike Tulsa Ok (Sent Oct 5, 2007 11:32:16 AM)
Here's the deal, as I used to work with a cell phone company before I was terminated for being ill.
The official line is "to protect the privacy of the customer." It /is/ possible that if Joe A steals Jill B's purse, Joe will have more than just the cell phone, he'll likely have everything he needs to call in and get access to the account (password or ssn4), or even less extreme, estranged spouses or snooping parents/relatives.
If just anyone who could 'verify' the account can get call records, then you're faced with the same issue as last year, when call records were so easily found for sale online.
And not just by relatives or theives, either. Most job applications require your address, name, contact number, and SSN to run a background check before hiring. That's generally enough info right there for an employer or potential employer to snoop about in your call records.
It's not ideal, but that's why Joe Consumer can't just call in and get call records at most cell companies. The whole "get records through a subpoena" bit needs to be streamlined, though, it sounds. But given it's Sprint, who is notorious for having the lowest quality customer service in any wireless provider, it isn't that suprising...
(Sent Oct 5, 2007 11:29:39 AM)
When I was being stalked by my ex-husband, he obtained paper copies of all of my cellphone records, as well as those of my sister and mother. When I called Sprint (and went all the way to the top of the chain-of-command I was able to access) I was told there was nothing they could do - they said they had thousands of representatives all over the world who could access my records and that they didn't keep track of which agent retrieved the information. I don't know if what's happening now has changed any of that, but I'm fairly certain that anyone who knows even the lowliest peon working at Sprint could access anyone's records with little effort. The problem with these companies is that 9/10 of the time you're talking to someone in a customer service center in another country who has no connection whatsoever to the actual company. They have no knowledge of anything outside of what's written on their script and no power to contact anyone who could actually do something. Do we not have the right to demand access to people who actually work for the company we're paying?
Julie, Oregon (Sent Oct 5, 2007 11:19:44 AM)
I have a GPS app running in the background of my AT&T 8800 Blackberry and can get REAL TIME tracking of my blackberry as long as it has a signal. My kids use to to see where I'm at on my home from work all the time. The URL for it is at http://bb.tech9computers.com and I recommend it anyone that has a GPS enabled Blackberry for this very reason.
I know of 2 people that have had their Blackberry's stolen and the people were able to track the guys down within hours because they had this software running all the time. The police didn't care and after taking the report didn't do anything, even after they were told where the guys were that stole the Blackberry's.
John, Oxford, Michigan (Sent Oct 5, 2007 11:10:46 AM)
REMEMBER--Sprint was voted as the company with the WORST customer service in the NATION. I am not surprised it happened. They always have and always will continue to live up to that distinction.
RT (Sent Oct 5, 2007 11:10:01 AM)
Cell phone companies probably love to see phones stolen. For one thing, you have to pay full price to replace it. But mainly, if the thief runs up $5000 in calls then the owner has to pay it. The cell company makes more money off that then they'd ever make from the owner's legitimate calls.
(Sent Oct 5, 2007 11:08:03 AM)
Wowee... It took precisely five posts for some Leftie to hijak this thread and turn it into Bush-Bashing... You Demmies are getting quicker, I'll give you that!
My theory as to why Sprint is so reluctant to release detailed calling records to anyone is they're afraid the consumers might realize exactly how badly they're being screwed with "nickel and dime" fees, and change services.
Ann, Kansas City MO (Sent Oct 5, 2007 11:06:49 AM)
Cell phone companies suck! Cell phones have been around a while now but the plan packages are getting higher even for basic plans and they lock you into a 2 year contract and when you go over your minutes the kill you with over minute fees andfurther more will hold your phone "hostage" if you slip behins a payment and then you get something like this in not helping in a mugging case. This causes the criminal to be empowered because he/she knows they may never get caught. Cell phones are great in an emergency but when you lose the phone by either left behind by accident or stolen it is still personal property with the ability to reveal much of your private and personal files and friends where a determined criminal can victimize those people in your phone possibly and GOD forbid if you have your checking info in there. Land line residential is far cheaper for basic phone service and you may still get perks like voice mail and such but that same service on a cell phone is $50-$70 based on your service provider. We should stop feeding the beast (cell phone companies) willingly and stand up for all our rights as consumers and light a fire under the heels of our elected official's to make legeslation for the consumer's right's but we all are to busy to mess with such things and just prefer to complain about it which is much easier the American way or let someone else deal with it, Well guess what, That someone else is waiting for someone else and so on and on and on. I will finish by saying cell phone companies suck!!!
Raul, Denver the 303 (Sent Oct 5, 2007 11:03:46 AM)
I am a law enforcement officer in Ohio. I have been conducting drug trafficking investigations for 10 years, and often receive calls from people (family, friends, etc.) who have a loved one addicted to some drug. Often they have discovered the cell phone number for the drug dealer providing their loved one with the drug, and think that by giving that cell phone number to police will help us "catch" the drug dealer. Well, cell phone companies require us to provide them with subpoenas just for the subscriber information (if you want actual call records, give yourself a few more days, weeks). We have to get subpoenas from judges who often require that the subpoena request be reviewed by a prosecutor. By the time you get through all those hoops, you can send the subpoena to the cell phone company (many require that you actually send it in the mail; no faxes!). When we finally get the information back, a majority of the time, the cell phone company has sold the block of numbers containing the one we are looking for to a "reseller", and we have to go through the entire process again. Often there are multiple levels of resellers! By the time we finally get any type of information, the drug dealer is using another phone. In my years of doing this job, I have NEVER (not once) "caught" a criminal through cell phone company assistance.
(Sent Oct 5, 2007 11:02:49 AM)
As far as phone companies, well it is true that they could care less who is making the phone calls (legally or other wise), but bet your _ _ _, when that bill is due "John Q Public" better have the balance or it's going to be their credit!!! As far as law enforcement, I hate to say it, but that is really funny!!!! If I personally found out who stole from me, I would personally smash every bone in their hands!!! Not because I am violent, but just to send the message!!!!! NO TOLERANCE!!!!!
Sandra A. Cervantes II Milwaukee, WI (Sent Oct 5, 2007 11:01:09 AM)
It seems a sad state of America where the number of crimes outweigh the ability of the law enforcement to find closure. If law enforcement is unable to take care of recovering my belongings, I sense a revival of the Wild West. With the Law and the judicial system being critisized at every turn, (i.e. lethal injection is cruel? It's the death penalty people...) they will soon be unable to help foster a safe environment. I pray it doesn't happen but it won't be long before people in general in this country realize you have to protect yourself because no one else is going to be able to. I know what I would do if I was robbed and found who did it. I would make sure they never robbed anyone again, as the judicial system obviously isn't preventing it.
Mike, Southern California (Sent Oct 5, 2007 10:50:37 AM)
I purchased a sidekick for my son, and it was stolen from his back pack at school, he figured it out as he was leaving class, told the teacher, but half the class had already left. I contacted TMobile and the police. I wanted to know who took it, as my son attends a private Catholic school. Tmobile would not tell me if someone else was using the phone with another chip, as that would violate their privacy laws. The police took a report, and that was it, as it was only a $300 phone, and to them not very important.
Ana Lawndale, CA (Sent Oct 5, 2007 10:49:14 AM)
The phone companies would lose stockholder equity if they had to spend any of it on anything they do not have to spend it on. Helping people with anything costs money. Business ethics are left to the discretion of the Board of Directors who have limited liability in large corporations.
There is nothing in writing that says they have to help you when your phone is stolen. If we as customers can get it in writing as part of our service, we might have more cooperation and it would probably cost us more.
We need a new way of conducting business that does not reward greed but decency and good will.
Before corporations were considered "persons" separate from their owners and boards of directors they were not allowed the rights of persons. We should strip them of the legal definition as a person because they represent the worst type of person; a narcissistic or anti-social person for whom nothing matters but themselves. View the Video "The Corporation"
Cynthia Cascante (Sent Oct 5, 2007 10:47:38 AM)
Sprint doesn't care about crime or assisting customers, their only concern is what revenue they can squeeze from the customer. After fighting what a Sprint rep admitted were fraudulent charges on my account years ago, I dumped Sprint permanently. (They never did remove the charges, and I never paid them one thin dime for them either.)
(Sent Oct 5, 2007 10:45:56 AM)
Sprint is the worst company I had to deal with and I never had an account with them. Some one stole my identity and opened an account with them under my name. They checked my credit and used a long island address to open a new account. I found out six months later after I applied for some credit and there was the Sprint account out to collections that showed derogatory on my credit report. I called Sprint and try to get information about this account so I could take it to the Police like they were going to do anything about it anyway, but I felt I was entitled to information on this account that was opened in my name without my knowledge. I verified my identity with them and they still refused. Sprint told me the only thing I can do is fill out a fraud package and get a Police report and a copy of driver’s licensee and mail to them. After all of that the account is still showing on my credit report as paid in full but was out to collections. So Sprint will NEVER get a penny from me or any of my friends & as far for the Police they are only good for writing tickets, eating doughnuts.
(Sent Oct 5, 2007 10:44:14 AM)
What is the matter with police work today? When our home was burglarized 4 years ago, we had just received our new ATM card. My husband put the old one in the desk without destroying it, as we were on our way out the door for a trip out of state. The card was used 4 times within a 2 hour period at a convenience store on a Thursday night--their camera was "conveniently" turned off during that time. We had the records in the police department's hands on Monday morning, and they took a month to even check on them. Of course, by then nobody knew anything.
Second burglary last summer, they didn't even take fingerprints. Said it was probably somebody we knew and that they had to investigate crime. Last I knew burglary WAS a crime! And if somebody I know is robbing me, I'd sure like to know who!
(Sent Oct 5, 2007 10:43:23 AM)
You have to use the right keywords, like War On Terr'r! Then BPD could send the FBI to Sprint with a Letter Of National Security and confiscate every record in the place, tap all the phones and track the terr'ist- um, mugger, that is- by GPS. In no time they'd have him in cuffs. And on the way to Gitmo.
Vic, Simpsonville, SC (Sent Oct 5, 2007 10:42:39 AM)
Let's let people call the carriers and obtain the records themselves. Then let's listen to your outrage when some husband/boyfriend/stranger gets them and decides to assault or kill someone because of those records.
(Sent Oct 5, 2007 10:42:38 AM)
It all depends on who you are. Undoubtedly, if you had any sort of clout, the technology would have been proven fruitful in apprehending the criminal(s) within hours. (Be a major donor in someone's campaign)
(Sent Oct 5, 2007 10:41:56 AM)
Lets see if you get your $50. phone stolen we want law enforcement to have the records in a day or two. But if terrorists are plotting to blow up America with nukes.. and they are. We should respect their "rights to privacy"? Makes sense to me
john doe seatle wash (Sent Oct 5, 2007 10:40:23 AM)
He should access his account online.
All cell users, need to understand thatset up online access is very helpful
He real did not need the cell company to get the number.
Chris O Farmington .Hills, Michigan (Sent Oct 5, 2007 10:27:24 AM)
I use Nextel and have for 5 years.
While their customer (dis)service department has so much that needs to be fixed I could fill a web-site with soultions,
I have found that Nextel Technical Support Department gets things solved faster.
Without the 45 minute wait customer service has while they translate the english to their language to be able to help you.
So if you have problems dealing with customer service about details of a call after your cell is stolen..skip to Tech. Support...you'll get alot more help alot faster...without too much of a headache
ps.... sorry Nextel Tech Support for blowing open the back door.
Hired Gun, Boston,MA (Sent Oct 5, 2007 10:18:26 AM)
It is odd that cell phone companies are not motivated by the fact that helping law enforcement will reduce the number of illegally made phone calls. In the end cell phone companies pay the bill for those too. It is sad but not surprising to see again that cell phone companies are not willing to deliver any customer service, and not even willing to do their civic duty and assist in fighting crime in which teir products and services are stolen.
Nepkarel (Sent Oct 5, 2007 9:53:26 AM)
Why am I not surprised that the effort made to solve these cases by law enforcement is dependednt almost entirely on the initiative of the investigating officer. If the detective on the case has a work ethic you might see justice, if not you will only be frustrated.
As for the phone companies....the only thing they are interested in is profit. PERIOD! Unless they are forced by threat of law to do the right thing they will do nothing except make policies to maximize profit. We as a country are no longer free...citizens are nothing more than a source of tax dollars and revenues for the government and big business, the same big business that is so effective at pulling the strings behind the scenes of government to get what they want at our expense.
(Sent Oct 5, 2007 9:38:43 AM)
Um, ok, did no one think to use the GPS chip embedded in almost every cell phone to track down the phone itself???
That's how police were able to locate Tanya Rider.
Had they been using my Enhanced RFID chips, they could have found them within hours.
Logan 5 Scott, Cleveland, Ohio (Sent Oct 5, 2007 9:32:14 AM)
Well I had a situation where my truck was stolen along with my cell phone, and the theives used the phone. When I got the cell phone bill, low and behold there were a bunch of phone calls on there for the first few days,, When I notified the police that they could track the robbers with the cell phone numbers, did they care? No.
So part of using the cell system to track criminals is only as effective as the Police systems willingness to use it.
thx,
mike land, Phx AZ (Sent Oct 5, 2007 9:29:46 AM)
You would thinks companies that make billions on selling "air", they would be more user friendly when it comes to assisting and protecting its customers
Tim Danko, Jr. Hopkinsville, KY (Sent Oct 5, 2007 9:28:47 AM)
As far as tracking a robbery suspect in Baltimore, the city has a per capita HOMICIDE rate of 39 per 100,000 - approximately eight times the rate of NYC, and double that of Philadelphia - and Philly is practically in Red Alert mode calling for volunteers to stem the bloodshed. But in Baltimore - business as usual. So no matter what the technology and privacy laws allow or prohibit - don't use Baltimore as a measure of cell phone-robbery tracking effectiveness. That crime doesn't even register.
Mike N, Annapolis, MD (Sent Oct 5, 2007 9:23:42 AM)
I vote "no confidence" with Sprint ! Once they knew the man was the account owner (verified with confidential account info), they can easily access records and call data "if they wanted to" ..Just think, if it were one of Bush's NSA, CIA, FBI or JD spies with a frauduntley signed and issed court order backed by the Patriot Act,,the records could be accessed in like ...."10 seconds"....!!
Big Joe, North Oakland County Michigan (Sent Oct 5, 2007 9:21:39 AM)
Huh? My Sprint bill is available online, which I believe is true even if you receive a paper copy. If my statement date happened to be today, I could see today's calls as soon as tomorrow. Sprint, like any cell provider, has plenty of problems. Not being able to track your calls for "more than a month" isn't one of them.
(Sent Oct 5, 2007 9:20:47 AM)
Been there. Done that. Hate the phone companies.
My wife had her purse stolen at a local grocery store a few years ago. She turned her back for "just a couple of seconds". In the purse was pretty much everything, her entire life. There was also an AT&T calling card purchased from Sam's Club with 900 minutes on it. The purse snatcher used almost 700 minutes of that time and AT&T refused to cooperate with us in any way.
Don't expect anything from a phone company.... except the bill. That the only way you won't be disappointed.
Bob, Omaha, NE (Sent Oct 5, 2007 9:15:34 AM)
You'd think law enforcement would have a little more clout than a private citizen. We've had to put up with the Patriot Act. Now we aren't protected by the authorities for our Constitutional Right guarantees.
Jason Larch, Pittsburgh, PA (Sent Oct 5, 2007 9:12:25 AM)
This is absolutely ridiculous! Cell phone companies should set up individual emergency access numbers for each customer so when a cell phone is stolen, the customer - who pays a lot of money for cell phones and the service! - can access their personal records to help track the phone. It's a money rip-off by the cell phone providers to not have this simple service procedure!
Darlene Slate, Loganville, Georgia (Sent Oct 5, 2007 9:08:45 AM)
Lets label them "terrorists", then we could get all these records without a warrent in hours....
G. Behrend (Sent Oct 5, 2007 9:05:54 AM)
A company that processes Sprint's wireless customers call records to run rating and billing has a SLA (Service Level Agreement)requiring that processing to be completed within 15 minutes of receipt of the call record. The processing uspdates a database to which Sprint's Customer Care Agents have on-line access to the usage information. Sprint also offers an on-line service to its subscribers called Minutes of Use (MOU)- basically shows call records for a period of time.
(Sent Oct 5, 2007 8:45:23 AM)
Hmm..I see a prob with Baltimore police, actually. I have a friend who lives in Balt. She was held up on the street in front of her house. At gunpoint, she was forced back into her car, made to drive back to an atm and took out $500 for her robber, who then stole the money, her purse, and car. The police took a report, and did nothing. She purposely didn't turn her phone off. Instead, she waited a few days, got her records herself, and found out the numbers they called. They were stupid enough to call home with the stolen phone. She had to go back to the police to beg them to check it out. All was recovered, criminal arrested. Story in the newspaper credited the detective who did nothing, and never mentioned my friend who did all the leg work. Typical.
(Sent Oct 5, 2007 8:29:37 AM)
Same thing happened to me but the problem was not the phone numbers were not given but that the police didn't do anything with them. Why? The total crime was one busted car window (cost me $200). $10 in change and 1 $50 cell phone. In their eyes it wasn't worth it to pursue. I got a Dear John letter saying they were "filing" the case and unless there was any new activity would not be doing anything else and nothing was ever done. Very frustrating. I even translated the phone messages (I had the number for the voicemail) as I am fluent in Spanish and the thief was a Mexican national (the accent was obvious...yes each country has it's own accents)
(Sent Oct 5, 2007 8:14:51 AM)
I'm surprised Sprint wouldn't give the customer the information after telling him that yes the phone had been used. Then saying that can't give out info...and he is the one you can give it too. Seems FISHY
(Sent Oct 5, 2007 7:56:27 AM)
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