Trash Joe Scarborough (sp). Although I tremendously enjoy 'Morning Joe', his 'son-of-a-bitch' comment was totaly out of line. Do an early 'Mika (whatever)' show. Mika is golden.

Chris Matthews lips are also starting to get profanity loose. He is better than that. I admire him and watch all his shows.

Keith Olbermann is fantastic. His language is much better then Scarborough's and Matthews', but could be even be better if he tried and did parallel substitutions.

I can see Tim Russert peering down from Heaven with a frown on his face, shaking his head, and saying "what's wrong with you guys".

MSNBC needs to talk to Betts (Betsy Fischer). She knows.

Something I play over and over again is the rendition of 'Somewhere Over the Rainbow' so wonderfully narrated and found on top of the Tim Russest tribute on top of the 'Meet the Press' area.

MSNBC is grand, please keep it so.

I am 45 yrs young never owned a credit card of any kind I pay cash for everything so I guess my credit score is me 1 the system 0 I love it!!

I'm sorry, I just got back from Africa and your credit scores seem pretty petty to me. 80% of the world lives off less that $2 per day and you worry about matching a credit score? May you and your partner's credit reports live happily ever after.

GK, you are a truly lonley person. If someone wanted to know my medical history or family history of illness before they married me or had children with me, I'd tell them kiss off. I love my kids -sick or not, with incurable aliments, mentally ill -whatever. Shame on you. Incidentally, I had insurance, it was the co-payments and medication that cost a fortune - my wife supported me 100%. I hope you don't have to learn the hard way that money is not everything. So anyone who has cancer, mental illness, MS etc. are "COSTLY" to care for so they aren't worth it? Boy you are in for a big suprise - I hope someone is there when you're old and you need care 24/7/365. You can't buy perfection in humans, no matter what's in your portfolio. Isn't it beatuiful?

So, the overall tone of this article is that not only should business judge your worth based on your credit score, but potential suitors should as well?

What makes this worse is that the credit reporting system is incredibly flawed.

Of course a financial talk is important, but I think this is taking it too far. Someone's financial situation is blatantly obvious if you know them well enough. I'm in complete agreement with VR, Florence, KY (Sent Aug 19, 2008 3:26:35 PM) (except for the part about cash. In the debit card society we have, it is rare that I have cash on me)

Joe from Baltimore - You're missing the point. Most people who are considering marriage either would like to eventually have a child or two, or already have children from a previous relationship. It's not just about "money, and the ability to get more money". It's about being able to provide a positive, stable home environment for your children. A potential spouse who has no money management skills and is unwilling to live within his/her means DEFINITELY has a negative impact on that goal. One should give the financial behaviors of a potential spouse every bit as much scrutiny as one would give problems with drugs/alcohol, genetic diseases, a criminal record, untreated mental illness, an unwillingness to get and hold a steady job, etc.

You have a moral obligation to your kids, to give them a functional home environment, with healthy, positive role models. You DO NOT have a moral obligation to be a band-aid for 'walking wounded' adults who refuse to get their lives together, so stop pretending you do.

My suggestion is for serious daters to FULLY SCREEN
their potential lovers with criminal and financial
background checks. By hiring a detective you can get
around privacy laws because they will report ONLY on adverse data and not disclose the other parts.

Why waste time on partners that
JUST DON'T HAVE IT or GET IT regarding their
finances, health, criminality....etc.

Your biological clock is TICKING so DON'T WASTE
time on idiots, losers and bad genes. Focus on
HIGH-QUALITY MATES and that means doing
WHAT IS NEEDED AND NECESSARY so that you can
weed out the wierdo's, the financially insolvents,
the invalids and the liars...better to spend a few
bucks up front than waste YEARS of your life
in an unhappy relationship!

FINDING LOVE IS REALLY LIKE BUYING A CAR!!!!!...
you GET THE RIGHT GUY by doing YOUR HOMEWORK and
that means spending your own TIME and a bit of
money upfront to dig deep under the hood and chassis
in order to MAKE SURE he really is all that he says
he is! If this sounds crass or paranoid, I say
it's better be safe than sorry!

Marriage is an investment and like ALL investments
you DO YOUR DUE DILIGENCE before you buy the stock!
Why waste your time on a stock that'll tank (i.e.
bad risk guy) when you can go long on TOP QUALITY
BLUE CHIPS GUYS!

I was a VP at Fair Isaac [the founders of FICO scores] when Molly pulled her credit score on our 3rd date. While some may claim this is extreme, it showed me that while she had credit card debt, she was paying her bills on time and had good credit. Whether you are single or married, education is the key and http://www.videocreditscore.com is the easy way to learn.

If you are totally clueless, then this is a great article! Let's go din-din and share credit reports!

If you have some common sense, you'd look at the envelopes on the kitchen counter (or wherever your squeeze puts it). Lots of envelopes? When he/she opens the wallet, lots of credit cards? Lotta little papers (transaction receipts)? A lot of blinks on the answering machine, but they're not your phone calls? And so on.

A little observation goes a long way.

I have worked for both banks and a police departments over the last 25 years. I have found that the same people whose credit tanked with repos and foreclosures were also the same ones being arrested for DUI , out of wedlock children and domestic violence. Poor credit is often tied to an irresponsible lifestyle.
Love is a wonderfull thing but is often fleeting while debt can last a lifetime. Better to go into a situation fully informed than to be ignorant and pay for it forever.

I agree that disclosing debt is important, and in my relationship, I'm the one with the debt issues! I've been with my boyfriend for three years, and we moved in together about a year and a half ago. A long time ago, and I mean barely a few months into the relationship, he knew about my spending and saving (or lack thereof) habits. He knew about my defaulted credit card, and the hassles I went through trying to pay it off. He is an observant and intelligent person, and he knew what kind of person I was with money, because he listened when I told him I'd gone shoe shopping, or that I was using student loans to pay for school and living expenses, or when I complained that I'd overdrawn my bank account because I wasn't paying attention to my spending. And I knew about his credit cards and his monthly bills too. We observed each other, and talked honestly to each other about all sorts of things, so that when we talked about money, we could at least be honest. I'm not going to say we don't argue about money, because we're not perfect. But we each know the other one's situation, so when we looked up our credit reports together before we started apartment hunting, there was no shock over my defaulted card that was in repayment to collections, or over his balances on his cards, or over my student loans. We tell each other our monthly bills, and try to help each other stay on track, so that secrets don't end up breeding resentment. Yeah, sometimes I don't love feeling like I have to report my paychecks and bills to him, but at the same time, I realize that when it comes to money, I suck at dealing with it, and he is trying to help me be a better person, and I'm grateful. He's an absolutely great guy, and I'm lucky to have someone be as supportive of me as he is.

Mr Morgan,
Just FYI (i'm not sure if you kno this) but the miltary is VOLUNTARY these days bro. Trust me, i knew what i was getting into when i joined the military the week after the Iraqi invasion, as did my husband, my best friend and the thousands of recruits i've trained. NO ONE forced us to do anything, we knew then and know now the risks of war but made the choice to serve our country, despite the risks and maybe because of them. Oh, and i gave up a full academic scholarship to the Indiana University so its not like i'm an idiot. To imply that Bush forced us go to Iraq and spill our blood is to dishonor and disrespect our ranks. I was medically retired @ 24 because i CHOSE to serve this country, reguardless of the cost to myself and my family. Have some respect, please because i respected this country enough to serve it.

JSmith:

There are three groups of us commenting on this article: 1) Those that think a credit report review is better than their own judgement, 2)those that don't look for the signs of irresponsiblity/responsiblibity in a perspective mate and are, therefore, shocked by the consequences, and 3)those that know that nothing substitutes for getting to know another person fully and not replacing their own obervations and judgements with an automated report that may or may not be right.

Having the credit discussion has everything to do with having a RESPECTFUL and HONEST relationship with your future spouse.

Before I married my current spouse, I had accumulated some debt while building a small business, but originally planned to sell my house and use my equity to eliminate the debt and 'start over' with a simple apartment and no debt. I was not comfortable being in debt, having been raised to treat money with respect, and knowing that I was able to manage money as long as I had a regular income stream. I had just a few little 'dings' on my credit report. But there was no way I would have gone into marriage without being upfront about the situation with my spouse, as I have the highest regard for him and would do nothing disrespectful. So, we had the money talk, which was painful and shameful for me, but with his love and respect we devised a plan.

With his loving help, we obtained a joint home equity loan to consolidate my debt. I also dissolved my business venture and took a "real" job, which was a difficult decision after 12 years of self-employment.

I am happy and proud to say at at the end of this year the only debt for both of us will be the original mortgage. It's taken 4.5 years, but we have two paid-for cars, money going into retirement funds, vacation and next-car savings, as well as a safety net.

This is ridiculous! No wonder the divorce rate is so high. I have two friends in the process of marrying people they have known for less than a year and will likely be in a world of hurt once they actually get to know their spouses. It takes at least a couple of years to really know someone. Maybe if people actually spend time to get to know each other before getting married, there would not be any surprises.

Hey Will in LA: The purpose of this article is to encourage the reviewing of your significant other's credit report prior to marriage. You further proved my point... because you actually know this girl you also know, very well, her financial position... without reviewing her credit report! Thanks, Will!

Hey Will in L.A.: The purpose of this article is to encourage the reviewing of your significant others credit report. You further proved my point... because you actually know this girl you are aware of her financial position... no credit report needed! Thanks, Will!

It's funny reading this article. I was planning on getting engaged and I wanted to get a ring from Kay Jewellers. I went to the Jeweller, and they ran a credit check;it said that I had been delinquent w/outstanding payments due to creditors. Any how, my girlfriend had to finance her own engagement ring, and I did the payments.
The funny thing is that we broke up, and the credit line was on her report. I honored my commitment, and paid off for the ring. Not everyone would do that. It was an embarrasing episode.My scores are now in high 700's. Btw I'm 29, and this happened 5 yrs ago.
Credit Checks are indeed important if you intend to tie the knot.

Joe

Hallelujah!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think this is disgusting. This is classist garbage. If this is your concern when dating, why not just come right out and ask for a bank balance?

And no, I don't have good credit. I got sucked into the biggest ripoff there is, student loans. When I couldn't go to school, I had to learn my trade (software developer) on my own time! Now I owe triple what I borrowed (or rather, force-fed) and got nothing for it. What a ripoff. They ain't gettin' none of it!

Hey Will in L.A.: This article’s purpose is to encourage those out there to review your significant others credit report. You further proved my point - because you actually do know her you’ve gathered this information all on your own... no credit report needed. Thanks Will!

Joe,

Hallelujah!!!

What is the difference, I have been bankrupt lost a house to foreclosure, and in the process of doing it all again, it is very liberating once you realize that they really can't do nothing to you. When the creditors call just tell them to get another job, wait for the next scum back creditor to by the debt, then don't pay him. I LOVE CREDITORS CALLING ME AND ME TELLING THEM HEY THEIR IS NO MONEY FOR YOU AND i DON'T PLAN TO WORK ANY HARDER. aLL THEY CAN DO IS COMPLAIN AND THREATEN YOU BUT WHO CARES, IF THEY SUE YOU, YOU JUST DON'T PAY EVEN IF THEY WIN. wHO CARES YOU REALLY DON'T HAVE TO PAY ANY DEBT, AND AFTER 7 YEARS IT IS NON INFORCESABLE

Keep in mind that the free credit report doe NOT include a free credit RATING. The rating is the number....550, 770, or whatever. Esperian is combining the three credit scores now with a new number rating system where 990 is the highest score you can get. If you want a number RATING, you gotta pay. Oh, and before you get married, check the medicine cabinet too. She may be bipolar, and you just happened to meet her at one of her cheerful high mood swings...

To: GK

Where have you been all my life? I've been searching and searching for a woman who doesn't want to have kids.

I called off my engagement because of it. Smartest question I ever asked.

Keep in mind that the free credit report doe NOT include a free credit RATING. The rating is the number....550, 770, or whatever. Esperian is combining the three credit scores now with a new number rating system where 990 is the highest score you can get. If you want a number RATING, you gotta pay. Oh, and before you get married, check the medicine cabinet too. She may be bipolar, and you just happened to meet her at one of her cheerful high mood swings...

Gary C. - what do you mean you were glad you got sick after your married? That you didn't have insurance before you were married? That your wife is as legally responsible for the medical debt as you are?

As for John S. - yes, I'd want to know medical history. What if I want to have kids, but the risks are high for a birth defect he carries in his genes?

Many birth defects can't be fixed. Those children never grow up and leave the nest, and the costs to care for them run in the millions. And since I'm a woman, I'm probably the one who will have to sacrifice my life and career to be a nurse 24/7/365.

If I had gene markers, I'd make them known, and I'd definitely try to find a guy who doesn't want to have kids, or more of them.

Cory:

You are right on! As long as you do not wear ear plugs and a sleep mask on every date or get married within 12 months of the first time you meet, the symptoms of the carelessness, dishonesty, and greed of your intended will be evident. Just as when women (or men)see the signs of abuse during courtship and are surprised when the husband (or wife) beat them during the marriage, the signs of irresponsibilty are there to see if you are honestly looking for them. Examples, does he/she never have cash, always borrowing money, always screens phone calls, lets mail pile up, breaks dates and other promises, etc. A few, but not most, people cannot hide their true self for a year from a observant and aware person. Your own seeing and hearing is a better gauge of potential mate than a error-prone credit report that may have wrong or, worse, omitted information.

Money Money Money....God Bless the USA. It's articles like these that continue to perpetuate the idea that, above all, money is the most important thing in all facets of life. Forget love, family, helping people you care about. It's all about your money and your ability to get more money. If someone is going to be a financial burden on you, cut ties and move on. Who cares about that person and their problems. Sure, you might have said you loved them, but that doesn't mean anything now that you see their low credit score. Better move on to someone who can put you in a better financial position, that's where you can find true happiness. And once you've found that happiness, you had better sign a pre-nup, so you can protect your money from this other strange person who might want to run away with it someday.

In my opinion, the finances of spouses should remain seperate by law whenever possible. One party should not be responsible for another's lifetime debt simply because they marry them. That is not the case, however, so that being said, how can anyone enter into a marriage without having a full picture of the other person's finances?? And we wonder why 50% of marriages end in divorce. There has to be communication and planning done before a marriage, especially when it comes to finances.

Discuss finances, plans, careers, and debt with each other openingly and seriously. If you can't do it before marriage, you won't do it after. And discuss these things thoroughly. I knew my fiance had massive student loans obtaining her professional degree. We both had other debt as well. I also knew her current job and career track would not adequately service the loans. But I assumed that after we were married my wife would begin using her education in a way that would pay those loans off. She didn't and severe financial stress began to eat away at the marriage. Ultimately, we got divorced as there was simply nothing left after the strains, pressures and disagreements. Of course there was more involved that simply a student loan, but I cannot help but to wonder where we would be now if we had that discussion before the wedding instead of 3 years later. The credit SCORE doesn't matter - it's what is in the report that frames the discussion.

After the dissolution of my first marriage, I made a vow that I wouldn't marry again until verifying three criteria:
1. Professional level career.
2. Examination of her credit report.
3. References from three exes.
My first marriage was a prolonged one-way financial philosophical struggle, with her believing that the ultimate goal is to end up at $0 (or in the red)every month.
These things are, of course, in addition to my list of other things I looked for in a partner, and I won't bore you with them. I don't feel it was selfish, it was something that I required, it goes along with being open and honest, key qualities in a relationship.
About the 3 references, it was really a joke at first, knowing that most exes will tell you that the other one is a jerk, psycho, etc. I was really just looking for a pattern.
Turns out, I found someone who didn't think I was crazy after all, and was willing to SHARE (you show me yours, I'll show you mine)her financial info. We've been married almost a year now and we are of a similar mind set regarding finances. It can work if you decide it's important enough to you. Try it.

And Ralph Malph..wrong...I have great credit...I'm only pointing out that a great credit score shouldn't be something one strives for. The winners use cash, the losers use credit cards if you ask me.

I have been married for fifteen years and both my wife and I both work and pay our bills on time. My wife has provided me with a boy and a girl. I have been through tough times as well as good. I knew my wife as a friend before we became seriously in love with each other. I was effected by the Mortgage credit crunch last year because I was formally employed at a firm that manufactures residental window units so like carpenters, brick layers and iron workers whom are in the construction trade especially in residental construction I was laid off.
But I un-rentlessly looked for work so in between jobs I collected un-employment, yet I re-structured our household budget to adjust and still was able to pay my bills and maintain a roof over my families heads. We ar currently faced with a major economic situation in the United States which in turn is now effecting the World. Now my point is I am now employed again and paying my way through society. I personal doctrine I follow; if I cannot afford it then don't buy it. The major problem with our society is everyone in it want's to be the Carrington's and live the life of fame and fortune. What a lot of people need to do is to get a grip and come to reality. We have had it driven in our heads through commercials on radio, TV, the internet that money is out there for the taking and for free. Well folks even freedom isn't free, and everyone has to pay the price for freedom in one way or another. I pay my fair share, but what digs in my crawl is I as well as others are hard working honest people whom do our part and raise our children to be good citizens, yet it is difficult to do so when the so-called leaders and experts are embezzeling, stealing and ripping off our Nation especially those in government.
Now, I never asked my wife about her financial situation because I knew my wife cam from a rural farming background and was raised by parents whom their word is their bond. Now I am not a whiner, nor a complainer nor a loser. I'm a working man whom is raising a family with the better judgement to know I will not and cannot live above my means. Now my question is what ever happen to using better judgement and common sense? Now, if I was single and dated a woman whom all she wanted to do is spend her spare time at the mall 24/7 wouldn't that be a red flag that maybe this woman is in hock over head? A little common sense by the ounce will save you a pound of grief. Now I can understand that a person could suffer a injury or illness which will financially ruin a family; but again whom created this mess in the first place? Surely not myself, my wife or my children. But the greed mongers whom fought tooth an nail against medical reform and a nationalised medical insurance. I think the only way we as American's are able to get out of this mess is to re-think our priorties and once and awhile look not only at your credit score but look at your bank account and come to reality. If you can't afford it then don't buy that boat, car, house etc; use better judgement.

Having the talk about credit scores would be way too boooooring! It would be almost as boring as having the talk about getting married.

It seems to me, from a scan through the responses above, that there are two types of reaction to this article. The affirming responders obviously agree that hidden financial landmines can destroy (and has) otherwise good relationships. And then there are those who seem to feel that "if you truly love the other person" finances shouldn't matter. To the second group, I wonder why the thought of addressing a person's financial past before advancing a committment is so offensive to you.

To not truly know another person before marriage is naive and irresponsible. Anyone who has responded that you will just work out all of your differences afterwards is either an inexperienced teen or young adult, has received bad advice along the way, or at worst has bad financial habits that they are hiding from their partner.

I also like the romantic notion that love conquers all. But "Love Busters" and any number of other common relationship books will state that trust supports love, and that the financial shenanigans of a marriage partner can seriously shatter the foundational trust of any relationship. So please, air out your dirty laundry to a marriage counsellor before tying the knot.

Any former Marines out there?

To whoever decided to post without an identity, if you have a good credit score and little debt, you are in the minorty. Its a great minority to be in, don't get me wrong, but you are. If you can handle the debt responsibly, then good for you. "Handling debt responsibly" to me is a contradiction in terms. You play with snakes long enough, ( and that's what you're doing every time you use a credit card), and the snake will bite you. If you have the savings, why not just buy the washer/dryer outright instead of keeping credit card companies in buisness? Call it BS if you want to, but the data is out there that shows what I said is right. It does sound like you are doing great at such a young age, so good for you.

You can always tell a spender because (s)he owns more stuff than (s)he should with the income they have. It is hard to hide bad spending habits. Just walk into the store with the person, and observe.
You really do not need a creadit report, just an open mind.
Will the credit score impact your desision to marry that person you love? If not, what is point of obtaining it. If yes, you probably not in love, and probably should not get into this marriage anyway.

Hey, Cory in Columbus: A girlfriend of mine is 30K in debt. She ran up the debt in her 20's and is now in her mid 30's. She is financially responsible, only buys what she can afford, and pays her bills on time. However, she still has that 30K debt! Her boyfriend of 3 years does not know about this debt, and they are set to be married in December. So all he sees is a financially responsible person. I feel sorry for the guy, he has no way of knowing about the 30K he is going to owe after December. So how is someone suppose to have a "strong gauge" as you say? She is financially responsible now, and that's all he sees.

Relationships should have trust and honesty in their foundations, and while money is a very sensitive subject for most people it is also the number one cause for divorce. Chances are if your significant other can’t be honest with you about their financial state, they're not being honest with themselves either. Like my fiancé says, “What do I have to hide?” We are planning our wedding right now so money is something we’re constantly talking about. We’re also going to see a financial advisor before the wedding to make sure that we’re doing everything possible to establish a solid financial future for ourselves as a couple. If you’re getting married for the right reasons, something like a bad credit score isn’t going to scare you away. It’ll make you evaluate all your options and figure out how you can work through it together, if that’s truly what you’re interested in doing.

Something people seem to forget is romance and religion aside, marriage is a legally binding contract and one that people don’t take seriously enough (marriages fail more often than they succeed now-a-days.) Would you enter into a legally binding contract without reading the fine print? Would you sign your life away without knowing what you were getting yourself into? Trying to protect yourself doesn’t mean you love your spouse any less, it just shows that you take your financial future seriously and that you care enough to be honest and upfront with one another. It’s best to be aware of what’s going on before you sign the dotted line than have a rude awakening a few years later.

Everybody seems to agree that it if you are close enough for marriage, you are close enough to talk about credit and debt histories. HOWEVER...is anyone asking the question ready to dump Mr./Ms. Right if they are hundreds of thousands in debt and/or on the verge of bankruptcy? Are you guys gonna suck up the cost of the totalled BMW just because she is cute and has a D cup? Are you ladies gonna go ahead take on a guy who is $70 GRAND behind on his child support and cant even get a CHECKING account or a cell phone? OR are all of you gonna go ahead and ignore the credit info and destroy your own financial future anyway because you are in "love"? My data says YES. I know of many cases where the person DID have all the unfavorable credit info in advance and didnt use it. It makes me ask at what POINT did the Freecreditreport.com guy know that his sweety was a deadbeat? Did he know in time to dump her and plowed ahead anyway or did he only find out AFTER he signed on the dotted line? Forewarned is forearmed but will anyone ACT on the advance intel? Sorry but probably not.

Thirty four years ago, when I got married, we didn't think about such things. I knew my husband, and his background and his family well enough to know that everything was as it should be. My sister married a man who was neck deep in debt and had serious drinking and substance abuse problems. And she never suspected a thing. The difference? I was paying attention - close attention - to the little things. I watched how he handled his money, listened to him interact with his family, and talked to him enough to be able to gauge his character. She fell into bed with some guy two weeks after she met him, and ignored every warning sign that he was not being entirely truthful with her. Wake up and pay attention people! The truth is out there!

Will in L.A. for President!!!!!!!!!!!!

To 'Mary in San Diego' - WOW! Someone actually agreed with me! It's a good day..... 8-)

Yeah Will in L.A. I agree with you too. It seems that the real problem here is some outdated laws that need to be brought current. You have to get a license and pass a test to drive a car, you have to have certain things in place to buy a house, so why not throw a law on the marriage books that says both parties have to disclose their finances? Seems like something pretty easy and necessary if you are going to now be responsible for someone elses debt. In fact, this would dissolve the uncomfortable "finance" comversation since the law is requiring both parties to disclose. It seems a lot of problems would be eliminated by a simple disclosure statement before marriage. Funny how we always like to make things to difficult.

To 'Will in L.A.': At first this article made me angry. And then your post caught my eye when you say "Don't you think that you are entitled to this information?" Yes, I am entitled to this information. In fact, if within the next 24 hours I am going to be inheriting 50K of someone elses debt, there should be laws in place to protect me; to protect everyone. Knowing this information, I can sit down with the person I love and set some goals and even help them out financially. That's what marriage is all about. But you are right, I am definitely entitled to this information before I am legally bound to a pile of someone elses debt. Thanks for pointing that out. My anger has subsided. :-)

Questions: Shouldn’t one have a strong gauge of how they’re future spouse approaches money through the dating process – credit report or not? If this person is “the one” isn’t the time and resources spent on the relationship alone an indication of their personality as a whole. All this talk about creating the perfect situation to announce your desire of viewing each other’s credit report is unrealistic – as though the trumpets sound and your number is called to reveal yourself in all your forms. I seriously doubt the legitimacy of the relationship as a whole if you have to ask for your boyfriend/girlfriend’s credit report. My advice: listen and look! It should manifest all on its own and by itself a conversation should naturally occur. (Unless you’re relationship as a whole is against open communication) Conclusion: I suppose if your relationship is really that hard-up for a financial discussion – do what you need to do. But goodness, I’m beginning to be a bit frightened as to the reasons people are using to determine the appropriateness of marriage if they can’t see it through everyday interaction through – be it verbal or non-verbal.

I think the point is this:

1) It is important to ask the hard questions first to save you from the 'con' artist person later.
2) It is not an excuse to ditch a person, however, do not fool yourselfe, how a person spends and saves is critical and crucial to everything you do together...
3) This article is not about the sad story of losing credit or getting into debt because of health issues/bills. As many of you know, the re-written bankrupcty laws were passed on behalf of the credit card companies...yet it was CLEARLY known that MOST people that file for bankruptcy did it for medical bills not for BAD spending habits...our government did EVERYONE a disservice especially those suffering under medical bill debt.
4) I have two relationship stories to share...one guy, I fell in love, didn't ask the questions up front, didn't find out he'd borrowed massive amounts of money from women all over the country and never paid them back, used women to purchase items that he would agree to pay back, and then didn't, lied about his credit score, was uninterested in budgeting, planning, saving, lied about money, spent all his first, and tried to spend mine after that. After helping him buy 3 trucks total, bailing him out of one thing after another, loaning money for many different needs including his son, I lost $8,500 that I will never ever get back, emotional pain like you wouldn't believe and the relationship ended and he walked away SCOTT free! He went off to his next innocent victim...handsome, charming, con-artist. My Dad asked me how the heck could you let this happen to you? I said, where in the heck did you ever raise me to be wary of con artists? I had never met one ever, now I can spot them a mile away. Second relationship story: nice guy, divorced, 3 grown kids, lost everything in his divorce, and got saddled w/20k in cc debt that his wife had run up. He took out a consolidated loan and made ontime monthly payments for 10 YEARS! None of that got reported to the credit reporting agencies however. We moved in together, THEN I asked him about his credit...and was shocked...since his bad hurtful experience, he had been cash only for the last 10 years...he didn't only have bad credit he had NO credit...after my other experience, my heart fell....but I had gotten a chance to know his character, and I asked him if he was interested in rebuilding his credit. He said he was. First step, we pulled his free credit report. That's right, he had NO score, but he had 4 items on it, of things he claimed he didn't know had gone on there about small items that he hadn't paid, so I asked him to do the right thing and pay them off, they totalled less than $400.00 for all of them, so he paid them off. Then we started the rebuilding...he went to a credit union and financed a personal loan, where they would take $50 a month from his savings account to pay off the $500 loan over one year. He applied for cc's, finally a company gave him a starter card with a credit limit of $500.00. 3 years later, his credit is in the high 700's. He has 3 credit cards with perfect payment history, and they are slowly raising his limits. He bought a used pop up for camping, and the credit union financed that. He has no other debt, and he's a VERY happy and proud man of his diligence and accomplishment. Needless to say, he was worth every effort on my part to reintroduce him back into society...yes, the credit society, because sometimes credit is needed and necessary....is still mostly a cash guy? Absolutely, but now he has built his credit up to where he can use it if he needed to. Was he frustrated, hurt, dropped out, dismayed by the complexity of modern life? YES, but he had the willingness to grow and learn...NOT repeat the same mistakes...

So, that's my story, and that's what I take from this story...find out what kind of person you have...the first guy I spoke about, oh boy, he was kind, and nice, and sweet, and handsome and charming and friendly and everything....but he was a liar, cheater, and con artist...if I had of pulled his credit report and had the conversation I would have been at least FOREWARNED...The second guy...turned out to be the diamond in the rough, he had hit on hard times AND life's complexities, but he wanted to grow and learn from it...and I am one lucky woman...

I had the talk with my wife before we were married...it wasn't long before, but at least it was before it was official. I always knew she had debt, but she refused to tell me how much. Well it was more than I thought it would be. Just because she is in debt didn't change my feelings. I made the decision to help her out. We are currently married and almost out of the hole. The reason I agree with this article is that if you don't have the talk and are blindsided, and become responsible for someone else's debt, it always turns into a point of resentment (I'd say even knowing the score going in, there is resentment, but at least you willingly took on the task). That resentment will completely erode the the good traits that you saw in your significant other in the first place. People definitely need to know what they will be dealing with for the foreseeable future or it will indeed be a short union.

Trust me...the ones poo pooing good credit don't have it...my family is the same way..the losers whine and the winners pay

The point of the article is not to use a credit score or credit report to justify love...it is to avoid a potentially costly and ugly mistake. You can love somebody deeply and truly...and they can still take you to the bottom and drown you in debt. Plain and simply...no confusion there. Love has nothing to do with credit, and banks don't care how much you love eachother. They simply want their money. If you don't work out the money issues BEFORE marriage, then you are doomed to try to resolve them in court, after you get your divorce. Money is the #2 reason people fight in relationships, and with good reason. Like it or not, this will affect you for the rest of your life, so take it seriously.

I never had a conversation with my wife about money or the handling of it. She was a deans list finiance grad, held a VP postion handling millions of dollars in budgets. We just divorced this summer after 15 years. My dumass agreed to pay my credit card debt in the decree. I thought I had only two cards. Turns out, she had opened 23, yes 23, cards without my knowledge. Now I have over 73k in credit card debt with rates all over 25 percent. I am so busted up I can hardly get out of bed. My advise is to follow this articles advise and learn everything you can about your partners spending habits and stay very imformed through out your relationship.

Heck, if it's ok to look up people's criminal past, then asking about their credit history should be no big deal. After all, most marital problems stem from financial issues. I'm glad both my partner and I both have good credit scores, and we knew this from the beginning before moving in together. We never argue about finances. This idea should be promoted. It seems the only people who wouldn't want this are folks with bad credit. This is just a wake up call to clean up your act.

Thank you "Vin Lunny" you are exactly right! We created the institution of marriage and how it operates and what laws govern it. Not God, not the bible, not the tooth fairy - these are laws were created by our society. Our institution of marriage was created for the sole purpose to protect the woman, because at that time most women did not work and we needed a device that protected them if the husband decided to jump ship. Our institution of marriage is now an outdated fossil. Financially it only hurts both parties now. Create your own institution of marriage - there's no law that says you have to get a marriage certificate. Wake up people.

One word says it all:

VENAL

The sure fire way to get me not to call you back is to start asking about credit. Why? If that's a make or break criterion for you, you suck as person and I don't want you in my house.

Great article. In fact I'd go one step further and say that people should not be able to get married until their financial status is fully disclosed. Its insane the rash decisions people make that affect them financially such as marriage or having children. These events should be planned for not done on a whim. This article is not about credit scores, its about responsibility to yourself and one another. Are you serious about being married, or is this just then next fun thing to fill a void in your dull life? People need to start operating like adults. And to "DR" in NY, NY, - this article is not about basing a relationship on a clean credit report. The point is that when you get married you inherit the other person's debt. Don't you think you are entitled to that information???

If a credit score is going to make or break the deal, then you shouldn't get married. If it matters that much to you, then just take control of the finances and help fix the other persons problems. I feel sorry for anyone who cares about the other persons credit score. I dated a girl who told me her score was over 800, I don't care, all that says to me is most of the stuff she owned was financed. I rather date someone with a 500 score and owns everything she has then someone who had a perfect score making nothing but payments.

I should add that being poor doesn't mean you have a bad credit report. Having too much debt for your income or not making your payments on time gives you bad credit. Having little income and no debt doesn't give you a bad credit report. No credit isn't bad credit; bad credit is bad credit.

I grew up poor but worked my way through college and paid my bills, my wife grew up much better off but was on her own working and paying her bills when we met.

Lucky I got my brain aneyursim AFTER I got married becuase it cost me a fortune in medical bills and my credit took a hit. Credit scores are NO MEASURE of anyone's integrity. I didn't ask for my illess at 41 years of age. I just collapsed at work one day with a bad headache... I agree, we've hit an all time low. Banks and insurance companies are criminals. Is the next thing going to be medical profiling so you don't marry someone who's prone to cancer or MS or other tragic illneses?

A credit report tells a lot about a person. Are they a safe driver? Their credit score is a good predictor. Do they live a healthy lifestyle? Their credit report is a good predictor. Will they live to a ripe old age? Their credit report is a good predictor. Will they be a good employee, tenant, partner, spouse? Again a good predictor.

Since credit is the most objective measure of whether the person has a track record of keeping their promises and commitments. It will probably shed as much light as pre-marital counseling on the charachter of your potential mate.

When I met my wife, she had no credit, debt or savings. I had savings, some credit and no debt. We both worked steadily, had simple tastes and paid our bills. We have been happily married for nearly 25 years.

My brother is a high school drop out with horrible credit and a pitiful relationship track record. My mom took out a mortgage for him and his new wife because he literally couldn't be included on the loan (even a cosigner). Within six months the wife left and he wasn't paying the mortgage (but still thinks it's his house).

Matthew, you hit the nail on the head! My husband and I found Dave Ramsey right before we were married, and have learned that "debt is dumb"! Debt free is the only way to go!!!!!!

I think the whole idea is completely crazy, but it would be hellish to find out the person you married has $150k in credit card debt, repos, evictions, etc. And you are left to "try to wake this person up"...and get their debt settled or paid-down, at least.

But, if you do want to know your significant other's financial health....when you two starting thinking about moving in together is when discussions about debt & credit history should begin.

OMG will everyone in the world please STFU about credit scores for 5 minutes?

Thanks you.

This is a sign that our society has virtually turned into a cut throat society to the point were we can't even trust our wives or husbands, let alone our government. I find this rather repellent that we can't even trust our prospective mates let alone family members; this purely an indication that our society is on a downward slide. We are in a very dark period in our history which was brought onto us on a silver platter by our societies leadership, either they be in private sector or government, they are the individuals whom have guided our society and theirfore the lions share of the blame should be placed firmly upon their shoulders. I am also ashamed that the media of the internet has become the redlight district of cyber stupidity and greed, instead of it's true design and intended structure of providing a new source of learning and a better form
of communication to the World Community.
I am also disgusted that a corporation the likes of Microsoft have become nothing more than gossip artist and the worlds billboard along the cyber highway blotting out the true sense of what the internet should really be. I personally trust my wife and children more than Microsoft Corporation, The U.S. Government, and any other big business or banking institution. I can safely say at least my wife and children have better judgement and are far more financially sound than the various sectors mentioned
above. I can safely say, it wasn't my wife or children whom developed the VISTA sofeware platform, it wasn't my wife or children whom created this massive credit crunch or handed out mortgages to risky individuals like candy at a childrens birthday party, it wasn't my wife and children whom ran a political campaign on the platform of tax re-form enwhich he promised to provide tax breaks to all Americans yet only providing tax breaks for the wealthiest one percent of the nations population or committed our youth to die in the Middle East. I am sure it wasn't my wife or children whom produced this pre-planned fuel shortage or raised the cost of living to it's highest level in twenty seven years.
So whom do I trust? I know I trust my imediate family at a greater level than those whom are the so-called experts and leaders of our society.

My mom didnt mind my stepfathers credit when they married because he had gotten a divorce and was recuperating from it. So she refinanced her home to help him out. That was 14 years ago, she's refinanced since to bail him out again and now hes in trouble again. But alas no refi because now the market is bad. I have no idea what they are going to do and all I can do is pray.

While you're having that credit score dinner, why don't you ask your date to bring along their tax returns for the last five years, their NCIC rap sheet, their most recent medical exam, the results from their blood tests (HIV, STDs, hepatitis, etc.), their psych evaluation, the results from their polygraph test, and a list of professional and personal references.

And don't forget the prenup.

Oh, what a world we live in!

The truth is if your significant other has a credit score that is "too good" - that means they most likely have debt and a lot of it, and they have been paying on it for a long time.Because that is the only way you get a good credit score.

Matthew in Nashville

That is the biggest load of BS I have EVER hear of! I have awesome credit and I don't have a ton of debt! I never have!! I have enough it savings to pay off my debt off now and still have plenty left. I haven't paid it off because I am leaving my savings alone. The card I have the balance on is less than $1100 I used it to buy a washer and dryer for my new house since I didn't have one. The card has no interest or payments for a year I can easily pay it off by then without touching savings. Last time I checked my credit score was 787 and it has always been around the high and I don't have a ton of debt other than my new mortage. I don't think I am doing to bad for 26! I own a home have a savings account and retirement account and very minimal debt and an awesome credit score!!! Having a high score doesn't mean you have alot of debt! Its means you are able to handle the debt responsibly!!

Or perhaps, how about instead of e-Harmony.com .... f-Harmony.com! Where people can screen for pre- financially qualified partners! Why risk your credit score on all this Happily-Ever-After?

Vin - you do reveal your anti-marriage stance within a few dates, and certainly before you sleep together, right?

Marty - Women don't want to be sugar mamas any more than guys want to be sugar daddyies (except a guy looking to purchase some young, thin beautiful "arm candy").

No matter how great a poor guy may seem, as a woman I'll always doubt whether his love is real, or that he's only attracted to my net worth. I can't risk letting a guy jeopardize my security - to take care of myself, especially my medical needs when I'm old someday.

Imagine my shock while me and my fiancee were shopping for a loan on a house and the credit report came back that he had $30,000 in collections...

The lies... it was his ex wife debt... it was not him....well this is a wake up call people. I was able to buy my house under my own name and not put him on the loan. Thank God I did because in the end he was indeed a loser.

To you "Marty Reeh" This article is right on! I had great credit when I married my ex, he had no credit and no debts but proceeded over the next 6 years to financially ruin me leaving me bankrupt and not him. That was 13 years ago, I did end up back on track with great credit standing as I went back to my good spending and saving habits. I am by the way getting calls from his creditors now, apparently he went back to his spending habits too!

The truth is if your significant other has a credit score that is "too good" - that means they most likely have debt and a lot of it, and they have been paying on it for a long time. Because that is the only way you get a good credit score. What people should be looking for is someone who wants to live debt free and quite buying to the myth that debt is wealth, because that could not be further from the truth. This whole idea of credit and debt being a good thing is a lie that must come to an end in this country. Im not saying that you should trash your credit score, as most people are not able to pay cash for a house. However, I am saying that 99% of Americans are enslaving themselves ( "The borrower is slave to the lender") to those who would seek to get rich off of the greed and misfortune of the American people. The idea that you will always have a car payment, always have a house payment, and that credit cards are essential for life is such bull. Give me a girl who wants to live debt free, Dave Ramsey style ( yes, I realize that name might be a bad word on this site because he makes all the other so-called financial experts on MSNBC look like the chumps they are), and I'll be happy man...because then you wouldn't need half the tips this article is throwing out there. Don't know who Dave Ramsey is...google him and start down the road to real financial freedom, and don't marry someone who believes in the great debt deception that exists in this country.

Twenty years after my divorce, my ex-spouse's late payments STILL sometimes appear on my credit report. You have to be vigilant.

has anyone out there tried to get their "annual credit report" .com? Only one of the three credit rating firms would cough up anything for me...the other two insisted I had to call one of their representatives and jump through hoops, plus give every piece of information ad nauseum and still no credit report. I never did get a credit number or rating...just a reply that there was no bad statement on my record. Thanks for nothing. So much for credit reports.

My ex-husband and I didn't have "the talk". Once we were married, I received a call from the temporary agency I was working for that told me I could no longer work for them as a lien had been placed on MY salary as my husband had failed to pay his back taxes prior to when we got married and now I was responsible as well. This enlightenment came when I was about 7 months pregnant. Discussing this w/ your partner is not like asking for a pre-nup, just smart business. It will affect you for years to come and also what type of interest rates you receive when making large purchases, i.e. a car, home, etc. Forewarned is fore-armed. Another reason why he is now my ex.

We as Americans have hit an all time low in society. Checking credit reports to justify love? Thats just insane! Love is love, but of course most Americans don't know what that is either... hense the divorce rate here. So if someone falls in love with a person from a poor backround their no good? Hog wash!!!! If we all want to act like moron celebrities e.g. J. Lo for vanity purposes, then lets all go to the nearest bridge and jump!

I enjoyed the posting above concerning other qualities that are more important than maintaining good finances, such as honesty, loyalty, etc. However, paying your debt is an obligation, and it is dishonest to spend money you don't have, and then not pay it back. I helped my ex-husband to finally cleaned up his credit and was able to get a credit card for the first time in his 40s, but then he ran up the bill too high and couldn't make the payments. That was 5 years ago, and he never paid it back. To me, that is dishonest behavior - in fact, it should be called stealing. And he was a born-again Christian who went to church 3x a week!

People shouldn't be allowed to run up debt and then not pay it back. It goes back to living within your means and paying cash whenever possible. I use my credit cards only in case of emergency, and because I had great credit and high limits, my ex would always say, 'oh, just put it on your credit card' when the compressor broke down in the middle of a heatwave and ahd to be replaced, or when the refrigerator broke down and had to be replaced. He seemed to think it was like 'free' money.

To Marty Reeh,
You talk about honestly, loyalty, and integrity, yet you have no idea what this article is about. I'm sorry if you have been through hard times, but the three qualities above DO play a part in sharing each other's credit report/debt. Why wouldn't you let your significant other know about your debt/credit? If a little bad credit can scare away the other person, you have bigger problems. If the other has REALLY bad credit, at least you have the knowledge of it and be able to deal with it.

While credit reports do not mingle, the credit bureaus aren't entirely ethical in how they report. My ex-husband had filed a personal bankruptcy during the marriage. The only joint debt was the mortgage, and it was NOT included. The only debt on his bankruptcy was credit cards in his name only.

After the divorce, I had to fight the three bureaus repeatedly because they put his bankruptcy on my credit history and listed the mortgage as being included in his bankruptcy on my report. I was later named as a member of a class action law suit against the bureaus.

Amen, Vin Lunny!!!

My ex-husband left me with almost $100K in debt, most of which I didn't know about, and moved to another country. Creditors don't care and no one is going after someone for that small amount. I tried for two years to work it out, but the one thing that finally saved my life: bankruptcy. I was the one with all the assets and good credit going into the marriage, and the one that got financially destroyed. I have managed to pull it back together and was finally able to buy a house, but had I asked more questions, it wouldn't have been such a long, horrible road. And by the way, don't stop checking out credit scores when you get married. If I had checked things out during the marriage, I wouldn't have had such shocking phone calls after the divorce.

Easy solution to this problem: Never get married. I never have to ask a woman I date about her credit history or credit score, because I never intend to get married. Marriage is an archiac institution, foisted upon society by the church, which realized early on that an intact family unit was better able to tithe than the hither-day equivalent of today's single mother.

This is a sign of the times that I do not like. You judge a person by their finances? How about honesty, integrity, loyal, a loving heart, generosity of spirit, kindness? You'd dump a person with good personal qualities over a credit report? And they have to justify it? How about being willing to help them learn how to work their credit problems out. What if they went through really bad times, like me, and had not choice but to file for bankruptcy?

This new trend towards checking someone's credit report out is the lowest of lowl. If someone did that to me, I'd kick them to the curb after telling them exactly what I thought of them. My credit will be worse, but I will be the better person of the two because I did not ask for the credit report. You and your ilk be damned.

Wow, banks may be a bigger threat to marriage than gays are. How about our government starts defending marriage against real threats.

another way to approach this would be to look up your own credit report on annualcreditreport.com while your significat other is there & suggest they do the same to make sure there isn't any fraud on their credit report. and then look at it to make sure they aren't delinquent or anything.

This article is spot on. How I wish I'd spoken with my ex-husband about our spending habits before we married...I naively thought that because he didn't have credit cards that he didn't believe in them...Ehhhh, he just couldn't get them because he lacked discipline to pay them. We fought a lot over money because if money was in his hands, it was burning to be spent and to hell with something called savings. Better to have the uncomfortable conversation while you're dating so if you've got a train wreck on your hands, you can move on and find someone who has the same financial goals (and more than likely, other life goals, too) as you.

Great article, Bob. This is a MUST in today's world. My 2nd marriage was a disaster because I believed my fiance. She was definitely on her "high horse" because she had assets (a townhouse) and I did not. Funny, I had money in the bank and she had sky-high debt. She also had a bankruptcy in the past that I did not know about because I did not have the credit chat with her. Opposites attract? Oh yeah, it was true here. 4 years post-divorce I don't know where she is financially but I am back to great credit score with my own home and NO DEBT other than my mortgage.

Its time to start putting limits on these error-filled credit reports. It has been proved that high credit scores did little to prevent the current mortage debacle with many in the loan industry calling the reports "virtually meaningless". Yet these reports are used not only for loans but car insurance, employment and other background checks.

Anybody relying on credit reports for relationship guidance shouldn't be dating.

RED TAPE, is when msnbc.com claims they have updated a story on their homepage. When a person goes to read the so-called update they find the update is exactly the same as is was when msnbc.com claimed is was new. They probably just want people to click on the so-called updated story so they can spam new web ads at users. HRM.

This is insane! Come on now, if you are close enough with someone to discuss commitment, you better be close enough to ask about their credit. This article is for people who get married thinking their partner doesnt fart! My wife and I were married two years ago and we dated for three years prior to that. There were few big suprises... If you are not close enough to ask someone about the details of life, you are not ready to be married to that person.