Helpful finance tips, or sneaky payday loan ad?
Posted: Wednesday, July 1 2009 at 04:00 am CT by Bob Sullivan
The Econ4u Web site includes a blog with helpful tips and other personal finance tools.
Econ4u.org seems like a happy place to learn simple lessons about money. The Web site is full of smiling faces and quick, fun questions like: How long will it take to double your money if you are earning 5 percent interest? (14 years, by the way).
So what’s a fun Web site like that doing in the middle of a bitter battle over the payday loan industry, or for that matter, the smoking industry?
Research commissioned by the Econ4u.org’s operator, The Center for Economic and Entrepreneurial Literacy, has made its way into newspapers around the country – fewer than 1 in 5 members of Congress have any formal economics training, the organization said after a recent study. The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, Bloomberg, Reuters and dozens of papers have all cited the center's research.
Econ4u's owners say the site has a straightforward, noble mission: to "teach important economic concepts." But while the site offers plenty of useful money basics, there is one oddity: information on controversial payday loans is unusually positive.
And more curious: The man behind the site is Rick Berman, a notorious Washington, D.C., publicist famous for taking up the cause for unpopular industries like alcohol and tobacco. In fact, many believe Berman –- who’s known by opponents as Dr. Evil -- was the model for the lobbyist viewers loved to hate in the 2005 movie “Thank You for Smoking.”
(Some earlier versions of this story omitted the section below because of a technical error.)
The Econ4u.org Web site has appeared as Congress is on the verge of passing legislation that could severely restrict the $25 billion short-term loan industry, which has been under attack for many years. A law proposed by Sen. Dick Durbin (D.-Ill.) – the “Protecting Consumers from Unreasonable Credit Rates Act” – would cap payday loan rates at 36 percent annually, far lower than the current rate of 400 to 800 percent.
Econ4u.org is marketed most heavily in the Washington D.C. area, where it is hawked by bold advertisements in subway cars. There, its puzzlers are printed on bright orange posters. But one of the fun quiz questions seems to be posed far more often than others:
"If faced with an unexpected cash need, which of these options will typically cost the most?
* Bounce a check
*Get a short-term payday loan
*Initiate a wire transfer
*Pay credit card late fee
The *right* answer, the poster indicates, is bounce a check, which can cost twice as much as the other alternatives. A $100 payday loan costs $15, the poster says, far less than the average late fee or wire charge.
By itself, that might not cause the raising of any eyebrows. But following the poster's instructions to learn more on the Econ4u.org Web site adds a bit more to the mystery. Listed on the site’s “About” page are merely a form for entering an e-mail list and a phone number. The name of an executive, or even a public relations contact person, isn’t listed.
Econ4u.org on the DC subway/Bob Sullivan
A Google search for the phone number unmasks the anonymity quite a bit. The number also appears on press releases issued by the Center for Economic and Entrepreneurial Literacy, belonging to a spokesman named Tim Miller.
Information about Miller is easy to find online. He has also worked for another Berman organization called the Center for Consumer Freedom. It supports industry efforts to oppose laws aimed at limiting access to tobacco, fattening food and alcohol.
Miller, meanwhile, wrote an op-ed piece last year titled "Payday Loans Help Many of the Poor," that appeared in The Wall Street Journal and was reprinted in several newspapers around the country. The letter, in which Miller identifies himself as a spokesman for the Center for Consumer Freedom, makes a case against limitations on the payday loan industry.
"Short-term payday loans are actually cheaper than similar financial products like overdraft fees, credit-card cash advances, or paying bills late," he wrote.
‘Ambush education’
In an interview, Miller said that Econ4u.org is published by a nonprofit group headed by Berman that is concerned about the lack of financial education among consumers. The Center for Economic and Entrepreneurial Literacy is a spin-off of the Center for Consumer Freedom, he said.
"As an organization, we'd like to advocate the need for increased economic education in schools," he said. "Only three states have mandates for personal finance classes."
Miller said that Berman created the site "as a vehicle for (him) to talk about something that he is passionate about."
The quiz questions are part of an "ambush education" campaign that he said is more effective than traditional methods for teaching money lessons. Television ads for the site have appeared around the country, he said, but poster ads are primarily appearing in Washington D.C.
"We have a lot of twentysomethings working in town, working in The Hill, that don't have a lot of economic literacy and they are making big decisions," he said.
He rejected the suggestion that the site is a subtle marketing tool for the payday loan industry.
"We have a lot of information on our site. I wouldn't know how we could favor one industry," he said. Instead, questions involving payday loans simply indicate how bad some consumer other options are. "We're trying to drive home the silly mistakes people make. Bank overdrafts are as raw a deal as you can get."
Miller said he didn't know where the funding for Econ4u came from, and he directed additional questions to Berman.
‘Information isn’t unbiased’
Berman’s day job is running the Washington D.C.-based public affairs firm Berman & Company. He is best known as the paid defender of unpopular industries. He runs numerous nonprofit groups and media campaigns that target consumer advocacy groups, and has waged campaigns ridiculing efforts of groups that call attention to the dangers of smoking, drunk driving and obesity, among others. He has a celebrated rift with the organization Mothers against Drunk Driving. Miller described him as a libertarian.
In an e-mail exchange, Berman said he had a policy of not disclosing supporters, but asserted that Econ4u doesn't receive money from the payday industry, and that his PR firm currently does "not have any payday lenders as clients."
He reiterated that Econ4u was merely a labor of love. He did say that the Center for Consumer Freedom has a "long history of planting its flag in defense of consumer choices and attacking those who want to take them away."
Berman said his PR firm represents businesses against "activist attacks" by making "controversial, but factual, arguments to dispel many of the myths that are out there."
Econ4u.org, however, is different, he said. He pays for the site by himself, he said.
He called the lack of economics and finance knowledge among the American population "astounding."
"However, the information I put out isn't unbiased," he wrote. "It reflects the issues that I personally believe need to be addressed. The bank overdraft fees are one of the biggest scams running, and the reason we use that ad in the metro is because it's one of the questions that people seem most surprised by."
‘A sock puppet’
The Center for Responsible Lending, a consumer group that has long advocated restrictions on payday loans, isn't buying that explanation.
"It's a PR firm's attempt to put a nice face on payday lending by couching it in terms of broader advice, said Ellen Schloemer, executive vice president of the agency. "They don't disclose who they are. There is no way an average consumer would know this is a sock puppet for a PR firm."
In Washington D.C., interest groups disguised as unbiased research organizations are sometimes called "astroturf" groups. Schloemer dismissed Econ4u as the work of such an astroturf firm, and for evidence pointed to the keywords purchased by the site from Google's ad service – because keywords are purchased via auction, information about them can be gleaned by market research companies like KeywordSpy.com. Schloemer pointed to that site’s research on Econ4u.org, which shows about nearly 80 of the 97 keywords purchased by Econ4u.org’s operators involve some variation of the words payday loan – terms like “instant payday loan”, “military payday loan”, or “payday loan Oregon” --indicating its owners are principally interested in getting their site in front of people looking for information on payday loans.
Schloemer said she had no problem with the firm taking out advertisements – and conceded that much information on Econ4u.org is useful – but said Berman's group should disclose its identity in the advertisements and on the Web site.
"I have no problem with them trying to advance their views, we do that too. But it's not fair to consumers who are thinking this is objective advice," she said.
Berman, however, insists the site is his own personal project, and he plans to work even harder in the future to improve the state of financial education in America.
"Our last round of advertising...was a round of national (public service announcement) focusing on mortgages and basic business economics. And I am exploring getting our information into public schools in D.C." he said.
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If you think payday loans are scary now, just wait.
A local payday company is now running ads which say you can get a payday loan with a swipe of your debit card, no other verifications necessary!
The easier it becomes to obtain these loans, the less people will consider what they are doing.
April, Las Vegas, NV (Sent Jul 7, 2009 7:32:22 PM)
I don't see the difference between payday loans and pawnshops, but NO one says anything about pawnshops being rip offs. Whats the difference between pawning a $500 TV set and pawning a $500 check? You have to pay back $550 to get your TV or check back in 30 days, or else pay additional fees to extend the time. The major difference is that you can just eventually forfeit the TV set but you can't forfeit the check. Therein lies the trap: you have to sometime come up with the $500 to pay off the original loan. But a pawnshop can be worse financially, because first you most certainly will NOT receive the full $500 for your TV set, maybe $100 if your lucky. Second, people forfeit their goods and are still out the $500 value, your net worth is $500 less, but no one blames the pawnshop on this. You just couldn't pay the $150 or whatever so you lost $500. Why isn't this the pawnshops fault if you blame the payday lenders for the same situation? Because its cash and not an asset that you can just lose? If payday lenders should be illegal, then so should pawnshops!
Mike Vining (Sent Jul 7, 2009 5:15:49 PM)
Payday loans are just another form of greedy capitalism. I understand that people may have unexpected bills but the interest on some of these payday loans are rediculous! My father has actually used payday loans at one time or another and was completely floored by the interest. The company sued him in court because he was unable to pay back as fast as they would have liked him to and guess what, he won his suit due to the excessive interest. BTW, they allow persons who are retired and who recieves SS to obtain a payday loan and by law they cannot sue anyone who recieves SS or any other type of Goverenment money. I am a student who has a workstudy and I have work the same workstudy for 3 years and I was turned down because the company doesn't recognize a workstudy as a "real" job. Really? I do recieve a paycheck.
Sabrina, Pueblo, Co (Sent Jul 7, 2009 9:19:22 AM)
Rick Berman is a pretty despicable guy -- but his son David has a pretty cool band: The Silver Jews. David Berman, woo!
Daniel I., Coruscant, TX (Sent Jul 7, 2009 6:46:37 AM)
Jerry:I have used one company several times for a payday loans of $450. It cost me $45 and I always paid it back by my next payday. That's only 10% interest which is not unreasonable considering that you get the money in about 10 minutes and do not have to get you credit checked or anything, just proof of employment and your drivers license. They provide a service that can help people out of a jam as long as you use them responsibly. Would a bank loan you $450 in 10 minutes with no credit check?
Jerry, please read your statement above. Do you realize that you're paying 10% interest for a 7 day loan? compound that by 52 and that will be your APR. Based off simple math that's 520%, is that not loan sharking?
steve , Huntington Beach, Ca (Sent Jul 7, 2009 4:23:24 AM)
anyone ever hear of budgeting and saving? GO TO www.daveramsey.com and start down the right path!!
melissa, portsmouth, va (Sent Jul 2, 2009 8:11:06 AM)
I have used one company several times for a payday loans of $450. It cost me $45 and I always paid it back by my next payday. That's only 10% interest which is not unreasonable considering that you get the money in about 10 minutes and do not have to get you credit checked or anything, just proof of employment and your drivers license. They provide a service that can help people out of a jam as long as you use them responsibly. Would a bank loan you $450 in 10 minutes with no credit check?
Jerry, Tampa, FL (Sent Jul 2, 2009 1:12:08 AM)
I work for a Title/Payday Lender. I see all walks of life come thru my door from the very rich to the very poor. No one is 100% all of the time. The more you make the more you spend. These types of loans are not stereotypical to the poor or under educated persons. Every day hard working people who have an emergancy or must pay a bill before they receive high late fees visit my store.. My typical customers are making anywhere from 15,000 a year to others in excess of 100,000 per year. I have had bankers, loan officers, small business company owners, realtors, nurses, truckers, waitress/waiters, you name the profession, it doesnt matter.. Everyone needs help every once in awhile! The people that do not benefit from this type of loaning are the ones who try to subsidized their income or try to borrow money for things they dont need or could wait for. If you legimately have a bill that cant wait for your payday or a emergancy & you would normally pay the bill with your next check, what is the problem with a payday loan?? Title loans are the same way, maybe you dont have a checking account, maybe the furnace went out and you & your kids need heat.. Your car is the only collateral you have and you dont have a 750 credit score.. but you need heat.. who knows?? But by letting everyones Holier than thou attitude, or I didn't pay my bill & I was Garnished for a payday loan, seep into your decision making will only make the government in more control.. pretty soon you will be asking your local government wether you can buy a car this year, or that big screen you've been wanting.. is it fair for them to tell you how much your willing to pay for it & then tell you your wanting to spend too much so they will deny your request?? What is good for one is good for all remember.. The consumer just needs to take some responsibility, If you cant afford the bills you have now & u come to get a payday loan, what makes you think that getting more into debt is gonna help you out??.. Know all of the information before u decide that these places are loan sharks.. (And Im sure alot are..)BUT, Its your responsibility to know what your doing before you do it & have a plan of how you need to handle it. Period.
Lender in Idaho (Sent Jul 2, 2009 12:55:27 AM)
Paying on one now, I only make x dollars, medical emergency.. what ya gonna do? I have no one to help me out. so,,, until my ship comes in... it is a life saver with a heavy but not impossible price,
Grider-Tampa (Sent Jul 1, 2009 7:58:44 PM)
A year and a half ago I would have agreed with getting rid of the payday loan business, today I am for them they saved my life a couple of times. Sometimes a person needs a couple of hundred dollars right this instant for a hot water heater repair or whatever and not have to go a couple of weeks with cold water in zero weather. The payday loan business was originated for people like myself. I filed bankruptcy on account of a bogus property tax lien for $200. brought down a million dollar business but that's another story. My credit score went from the high of 790 to a low of 640 and even my bank Wells Fargo turned me down for a $300. credit card secured with savings account of equal value. So if I need a immediate car repair or some co debiting my account unauthorized I can at least get the money and deposit it so the rip off overdraft, nsf charges are not charged. The unautorized charges are usually corrected within a week or so. and it is worth a $20. charge which equals probably 400 percent interest but obtaining money on short notice is worth every penny of the interest charged. Payday loans are exactly what they are and if anyone extends them past the payday for repayment is where the troubles lie. So I am saying do not take away my access to a quick couple of hundred dollars unless you are willing to lend me a couple of hundred anytime I want for no interest.
Sam Peckovitch (Sent Jul 1, 2009 7:11:51 PM)
There is a way to do payday loans correctly. However, there's so much more money in being greedy that nobody will do it.
Joshua, Sacramento, CA (Sent Jul 1, 2009 5:07:03 PM)
Only blaming the borrower is like only blaming the drug addict... It was thier responsibility to not start taking the drug in the first place, but that does not excuse the dealer for providing the addictive product. If payday loans were regulated down to 36% (which SHOULD be the most allowed by law) they would still make money, and not clog the courts with thier lawsuits suing people for $1200 for a $250 loan. I work in payroll and you would not believe the garbage I see coming in or the sheer volume of garnishments to these sleaze factories.
J Hat Las Vegas, Nevada (Sent Jul 1, 2009 4:21:29 PM)
I keep seeing people balk at the fees that the banks charge. when you overdraft, IT IS NOT A LOAN. it is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to make sure that YOU have MONEY in your OWN ACCOUNT!!! I do not pay for my bank account, it is free, and i get interest on my savings. I MAKE SURE that I HAVE money in my account when my bills are due! It is SOOOOO hillarious to see people complain that the banks are raking in fees and acting as if they are blind. If you dont have $200 in your account, DONT WRITE A CHECK FOR MORE THAN $200. If your autodraft is more than last month, THEN YOU NEED TO BE RESPONSIBLE AND PAD YOUR ACCOUNT WITH A LITTLE EXTRA. it's not the banks fault, ITS YOURS. And no, i do NOT work for a bank or a payday loan. BOTH have their time and place, they just need to be used responsibly. JEESH!!
Brian, Virginia Beach, VA (Sent Jul 1, 2009 3:49:26 PM)
I got myself involved in an Internet Laon and now after reading ALL the fine print have a real problem They are equal to the Mafia in the rate they have declared The APR IS 99.25% If all the payments are made on time it will be 3 yrs to hopefully pay it back I am not alone with this problem The company exists in California but deals as an entity of a Delaware bank Delaware has no USERY law limiting the rate of interest There was at last count 12 pages of complains on the internet The Mafia was prosecuted fully these people have found the loop whole
CARL Tampa Fla (Sent Jul 1, 2009 2:39:37 PM)
I find it amazing the amount of people who say that typically it's "poor, ignorant, dumb, etc..." people that take out these loans. I'm poor b/c I'm a college student with kids. I fell into the payday loan cycle once and it took me 6 months to dig myself out after realizing I would never catch up by taking that out. If any of you have ever been in the situation where you lost your job and need to a. put food on the table, b. pay your rent c. any other emergency then you know how desperate you can get when you don't have credit or a parent or friend to bail you out. I have since learned my lesson and will never visit those places since. Those of you that just assume that only ignorant/poor people (and not all poor people are dumb, thanks) use these places are also the same people that assume all black people like chicken and probably ask the Mexican next to you in the vegetable section if the tomato your holding is ripe. It must be nice to live in a padded fantasy land where you haven't had to make that choice. Those places are awful and they should be outlawed so people don't have the choice! It's like legalizing Heroin.
Julie W. Findlay, OH (Sent Jul 1, 2009 1:52:55 PM)
John Doe: "Why would anyone use a payday loan? Heck, even paying the interest on a credit card is preferable to that of a payday loan. If someone has a legitimate need for a loan, they should contact their local bank or credit union."
Dear John, People who use payday loans are generally not credit-worthy and have little assets/equity... They don't have various credit cards at their disposal, and banks certainly aren't lining up to give them unsecured loans. What they do have, however, is a job and a) an emergency, b) a money-management issue, or c) both. No one with any understanding of the products' interest and fees and the capacity to go elsewhere would use a payday loan...
Alicia, Dallas, Texas (Sent Jul 1, 2009 1:32:29 PM)
Obviously, payday loans and co pry on the financially weak and vulnerable. How many of these offices do you see in relatively wealthy areas. The answer is none.
I always find these establishment in the most deprived areas of any city, because it is how they can make their money.
Schmuck, St. Louis, MO (Sent Jul 1, 2009 1:26:35 PM)
I suggest you all move to Pennsylvania. Our state government recognized payday loans for what they are and passed laws that literally put them all out of business. The one time i used this was during an illness when my vehicle broke and i have no one to assist me. Bank loans take too long to get in an emergency situation. Fixed the vehicle, was able to go to work and I paid it back on time. I reci=ognized just how bad it could get if i could not pay it back on time. I feel sorry for the folks who had good ntentions and bad luck, like losing a job.
Kay A Liverly (Sent Jul 1, 2009 1:22:19 PM)
it's clear that we as Americans continue to march down a path of idiocy. Read the "fine print" and don't agree to something you CANNOT handle. It's really that simple people. WHy do we constantly need/want our Gov't to bail us out from our stupid decisions?
a little bit above average, Suwannee GA (Sent Jul 1, 2009 1:19:47 PM)
"Payday loans" are a trap for the unwary and it is usually young people who use them to get deeper into debt. They are unscrupulous, venal usurers and they should be outlawed.
Richard, Topeka, KS (Sent Jul 1, 2009 1:19:09 PM)
The payday loan business preys on people in the financial margins of society, they can't get credit cards, they don't have bank accounts or established credit. These are generally people who are not sophisticated enough about money to understand what they are getting themselves into. In the inner city where I live, in the poorest neighborhoods, they are on nearly every corner. Kansas City put a moratorium on them finally, and limited the amount of signage and even the colors they can use on their store fronts, as they found them to be predatory as well.
Krystal, Kansas City, MO (Sent Jul 1, 2009 1:18:08 PM)
Pay Day Loans? You'd be better off robbing a bank. They've been ripping us off for years anyway. Now that we own the banks your defense could always be that you were giving yourself a loan from the bank you own. ;)
Jimmy Hoffa (Sent Jul 1, 2009 12:56:36 PM)
Even when my wife and I were at our lowest point financially - she was working part-time while I was in school - we never even considered taking out payday loans. Capitalist ideals and pursuit of the almighty dollar has be become a convenient cover for activities that should be considered criminal. If payday loan businesses need to charge 300 - 500% interest to stay in business, they need to be shut down.
Jeff W - Columbia, MO (Sent Jul 1, 2009 12:47:09 PM)
Funny, you can go outside any military base and find at least four or five of these places within the first mile... and more even further down the road. They love to target the military.
Steve Burback, San Diego, CA (Sent Jul 1, 2009 12:39:28 PM)
I used one once because I didnt have the cash to fly to see a family member who was ill. After I got paid I went in and paid them the money I owed. It was quick and painless. I know enough not to fall into their traps.
Tom, Louisville, KY (Sent Jul 1, 2009 12:33:17 PM)
Back in the early 90s I cashed a check in advance and quickly learned never to do it again. This was before it got so bad but I could see how the problem would escalate for folks who didn't realize how fast the interest accumulates. Because I needed $100 in cash for a deposit on an apartment lease, I asked what amount did my check need to be so they could cash it in 10 or so days. To establish credit back in college I paid 12% interest on a small cash loan through my CU ($1000 loan for 1 year on which I paid $100 a month to pay it off early, total of $1,120) but when I had to write the check for $125 to get $100 in cash I knew right then that this was trouble. Now of course a payday loan is something else but just cashing a check? Thank goodness our transaction was complete once they submitted my check and it cleared both banks. I can't imagine what would have happened if I hadn't had the money available. I might still be paying that off almost 20 years later. Wow.
Linda, Tampa, FL (Sent Jul 1, 2009 12:27:51 PM)
A Payday Loan, used appropriately, makes getting through a tough spot much less stressful and depressing. An unexpected expense at the wrong time can easily cause someone who has poor credit to be overdrawn at their bank. The fees charged by the bank a far more criminal than the interest charged at the payday loan institution. I will repeat, USED APPROPRIATELY.
Barney Fife, Mayberry RFD (Sent Jul 1, 2009 12:20:32 PM)
"Capitalism doesn't mean everyone should just be able to get away with whatever they can...."
This is correct. Capitalism means that companies get away with whatever the consumor *allows them to*. Companies go out of business if consumors don't support them. If a company is making money hand over fist doing something that isn't very nice, it's only because the consumor is supporting them.
Too many people find being taken advantage of easier (and therefore preferable) to being educated.
Lynn, Atlanta, GA (Sent Jul 1, 2009 12:20:05 PM)
I too was a victim of the Payday loan cycle. In Ohio, Payday lenders charged $15 for each $100 that you borrowed. So a $200 loan cost $230 when you paid it off in two weeks. Once it was paid, you could go back the next day and borrow again. So now you are not only short your original $200 but also the extra $30 you had to pay. Before you know it your original $200 loan has turned in to a $500 loan with $75 in fees. It took a lot of effort for me to go "cold Turkey" and stop the cycle. You may have to put a few creditors or bills aside for a couple weeks, but it is the only way you can break free from this trap. I learned a very valuable lesson from this and will never step foot in one of those institutions again.
John Petro,Mentor,Ohio (Sent Jul 1, 2009 12:19:44 PM)
Have you all been living in a vacuum, I used to sell cars, my experienec with bankers was they were the bigger thief.
J. Nicholas Ephraim (Sent Jul 1, 2009 12:13:16 PM)
Classic irresponsible people. Everyone knows that payday loans are a high risk if you choose to do so and fail to pay it back what the hell did you think would happen? Give me a break and take responsibility for your actions.
Matt, Cleveland, Ohio. (Sent Jul 1, 2009 12:12:29 PM)
The Bank of America charged both of my daughters’ fees that were far, far more than any payday loan company: $35.00 for a $1.18 overdraft caused by their monthly charges. However BOA is making so much money they can pay for Public Relations TV ads making them look like good guys. The payday loan companies are almost all small businesses that came from the same demographic that they service. What is needed is more basic financial education. Simple things like there is no free lunch. If you borrow money, it is a service you must pay for. An honest business proposition. Charity is nice and many people are making six and seven figure incomes funneling charity to the poor. A better long run program may be letting low income people see a successful small business in their own neighborhood, that provides jobs and important services.
Larry Lynch, Shrewsbury MA (Sent Jul 1, 2009 12:07:20 PM)
I took out a payday loan, I was too ashamed to admit it, after a while I realized I would not be able to pay back my loan, it took 3 years and a good person who felt sorry for me for me to get free, when I was paying it off, they had the nerve to ask me if I wanted another one. I looked at the people in line and felt sorry for them.
barbara danty detroit mi (Sent Jul 1, 2009 12:05:17 PM)
I wonder how many of the folks here condeming the people who got hurt by payday loans...are actually in the industry themselves? Wouldn't be the first time I have seen a message board peppered with these folks!
Karen W, WA. (Sent Jul 1, 2009 12:04:39 PM)
I absolutely love the people who come here, cloaked in there anonymity, and rail against all the people they see as stupid! The trouble is? I would place money that at least of few of those folks have either taken out payday loans themselves, or gotten caught up in fees from banks they didn't feel they deserved. People make mistakes,, and hopefully they learn from them.
I once got caught up in the payday loan "circle of death", until I realized just how much I was paying these people. When I could afford to do so, I paid off the loans (yes, I was one of those people that had loans outstanding online, as well as locally), and have not looked back.
Now, I use my credit union that offers payday loans, with a twist. For each loan I take out, they deposit 10% into an interest bearing account that I cannot touch for 18 months, I believe. This allows me to have savings that I probably would not have had otherwise. On top of this, they charge about 1/3 what the payday loan sharks charge! Plus, they report to the credit bureau's, something the payday loan industry refuses to do!
Stop paying the high fees of the payday loan lenders, and find a bank or credit union that offers the service. It will help you build your credit, AND help you when you just need a few hundred to get to the next payday.
Karen W, WA. (Sent Jul 1, 2009 12:00:46 PM)
All we have to do is grassroots lobbying. Convince your COngressperson / Senators that if they dont limit interest to a set point ,say 11% , we will run there useless asses out of office. Then they will lose their money making oppertunities . Believe it or not we still have the power to vote . Someone start a petition.
Vance G. Wiseman (Sent Jul 1, 2009 11:58:37 AM)
I almost got lewered in when I was in the Army, Payday loan places are everywhere outside military installations. At places like Ft L. Wood, Ft Brag, Ft Riley, Ft Hood there are multiple companies competeing stores on every opposing street corner right outside the front gates. When I was stationed at leavenworth there was an equally bad problem, mixed with pawn shops and the usual that go with towns outside of military bases. Soldiers would go and try to take out a loan and get stuck in the cycle only to have thier leave and earnings demolished by the payday companies. It causes the divorce rate and other social problems to stagnate within our military. This includes officers just the same. Now there are federal laws that protect the service members in the form of maximum intrest rates. Unfortunantly, they go nowhere far enough in the protection of service members. As far as I saw after 7 years active duty, Someone in the ranks of our country is profiting big. AND YES it is the most purest form of loan sharking in the world, merely blanketed by a facade of help to the weary.
BOB (Sent Jul 1, 2009 11:58:09 AM)
somewhere in our schools curriculums a course is needed and required on the proper use of all credit instruments. credit cards and payday loans can be mis-used so easily by the unaware, or uninformed. payday loans should be illegal, these loans prey almost exclusively on the people least able to afford such a loan. young people should join a credit union as soon as they can legally do so. they can get help with all their questions on correct money management habits there. in my experience they are much friendlier to the consumer than banks.
gary b., eagle, mich. (Sent Jul 1, 2009 11:56:49 AM)
I look at payday loans like the lottery...its about time those who don't pay taxes paid something to someone...and their suckers too
Rick, NC (Sent Jul 1, 2009 11:48:08 AM)
Adept Havelock
Amen !!! Anything over 12% was usury and was a criminal offence. Exactly who got that law repealed?
Ash (Sent Jul 1, 2009 11:46:04 AM)
As with anything YOU are the one responsible for your financial situation. Don't blame the payday loan company or your credit cards for the debt YOU incurred. I work for a small payday loan company and unlike the big names we actually work with those who have fallen on hard times, it is not uncommon for us to accept "good faith" payments and keep holding the check for customers. And it is cheaper to take a payday loan than to write a bad check and have it bounce. Do your research BEFORE you sign that loan contract. And really how many banks will loan you just a few hundred bucks? Payday loan borrowers are from all walks of life. From those driving rusted out beaters to those driving cadillacs and other expensive cars. Doctor's,nurses, students etc... do NOT judge until you've walked in someone's shoes.
EKN-proud payday loan employee (Sent Jul 1, 2009 11:45:44 AM)
People are pushed to these payday loan vultures because of the practices of our banking industry. If you are going to be charged $120 to $200 in overdraft fees before the end of the month because one of your autodraft bills came in higher than expected, it is cheaper to get the payday loan! Banks want to talk about how terrible payday loan places are, but at least with a payday loan the interest rate is disclosed up front. Banks never talk about the rates they charge when someones account goes negative for even a few hours! Doesn't matter how fast you top up the account - even a pending authorization for a purchase you never completed can let them suck hundreds in fees. That's where the big money is, folks, not payday lenders. And no, I don't work for one.
Julie, OR (Sent Jul 1, 2009 11:39:35 AM)
you should try getting a 500.00 loan from a so called "reputable establishment":(bank, credit union,)its laughable. also all you economic pros need to add your banking costs to your equation; banks charge the same unethical fees for irresponsible money management. Thats legal! ($30.00 bounced check fee for a $10.00 check.) a payday loan for the same amount would cost a whopping $1.50
Tim Thomas wichita kansas (Sent Jul 1, 2009 11:35:22 AM)
Payday loans are for folks who the bank would not touch. Hence the loan shark fees. They used to be check cashing trailers in cities where folks usually owed too much to too many. Now they are respectable? Idiots. While you are there check out the many Rent to Own stores who will happily fleece you. They exist because of dumb people who don't learn lessons. YOU are responsible for your actions, not the TV or newspapers or net info. Maybe you can still get an Interest Only mortgage if you hurry.
John (Sent Jul 1, 2009 11:12:52 AM)
Similar to payday loans are the title loans. My stepdaughter when she was 20 (immature and a bit naive) took out a $1000 title loan against the car I helped her purchase. She made 5 payments of $300 per month before I found out and got involved. To get her out of this mess I paid the title loan an additional $1200 to bring her account to zero.
To recap:
$1000 original loan
$1500 total in installment payements
$1200 final payment to being note to zero
$2700 total amount repaid to the company
So a five month loan for $1000 cost $1700 in interest. Any of you who think these companies are providing a valuable service are delusional. They prey upon the inexperianced and less fortunate of our society under the guise of "free market". If they were performing this "service" in a bar with cash, they would be convicted of loan sharking.
Payday and Title Loan Companies should be strictly regulated and/or made illegal.
Rhett Larsen, Salt Lake City Utah (Sent Jul 1, 2009 11:12:35 AM)
The regular banks have gotten into the act as well. My son took out 20 from the ATM on a Friday night, overdrawing his account by 2 dollars due to a 3 dollar fee for using a bank other than his own.
That cost him 170 dollars in fees, even though he transferred more money into the account within two days.
They "lent" him 2 dollars for forty eight hours and want 170 dollars for it. This is an established bank.
Now, yes, he shouldn't let his account get so low and yes, he should be aware of fees being charged by banks. However, it is taking advantage of the least sophisticated consumers to a tremendous degree to sock them with these fees and charges. Bankers used to be the epitome of trustworthiness. Now, they are like criminals.
alice (Sent Jul 1, 2009 11:04:42 AM)
How I long for the days Usury was treated as the crime that it is.
Adept Havelock (Sent Jul 1, 2009 10:54:47 AM)
they`re crooks , your idiots!
tracer (Sent Jul 1, 2009 10:53:50 AM)
I used pay day loans in college to cover tuition payment deadlines between paychecks. I took out $300 at a time and quickly realized I wasn't going to be able to pay it back by the next paycheck, causing a rolling boulder of fees and constant returns to the payday loan vendor for more rollovers.
I was stupid to do this, but I needed the money. If you are responsible, you will stay away from payday loans or use then in a responsible manner. If I could go back in time, I would slap myself for being so stupid as to even darken the door of a payday loan establishment. Lesson learned. I hope no one else has to learn this lesson again.
John D, Atlanta (Sent Jul 1, 2009 10:49:17 AM)
It seems that most people posting here understand the very simple basics of the situation- don't blame someone else for self-inflicted dumb.
Are the payday loan places bloodsuckers? Well yes, of course they are and conspicuously so, but when that's the case and some STILL want to cry about getting fleeced by them it quickly becomes plain where the real fault lies.
Dave, Delaware (Sent Jul 1, 2009 10:35:04 AM)
I got trapped in the "pay day loan circle of death"...I admit it was my own fault. At first, it seemed convenient and great! Until I borrowed from one and couldn't pay it back on time, so I borrowed from another to pay the 1st one back...etc. One of them, I just stopped paying altogether...they ended up garnishing my wages until they were paid off. I've learned my lesson, and I still owe a couple of them to this day. I'm slowly working my way back up!
Jenna Loo, Tucson AZ (Sent Jul 1, 2009 10:34:22 AM)
There need to be consumer protections in place. Capitalism doesn't mean everyone should just be able to get away with whatever they can--that's not capitalism, that's a criminal society. Ignorance is no excuse, but preying on people's ignorance should not be the basis for a business.
Gary, Seattle, Wash (Sent Jul 1, 2009 10:25:45 AM)
Why would anyone use a payday loan? Heck, even paying the interest on a credit card is preferable to that of a payday loan. If someone has a legitimate need for a loan, they should contact their local bank or credit union.
John Doe, Seattle, Wash. (Sent Jul 1, 2009 10:23:16 AM)
Simple solution: Don't get a payday loan if you are not 100 percent sure you can pay the whole amount back on time with the funds from your next paycheck (I used one once to get insurance on a new car, because the down payment ended up being larger than we anticipated. Had no problem paying the amount back with the very next paycheck we got). If you use them in the right circumstances and are responsible with your paychecks and your bank accounts, there's no reason why not to have such services around for occasional use. I believe there needs to be a limit on how often you can get a payday loan (once every other paycheck at a maximum) to keep people from using them to make it through their bills. Bottom line, though, is that if you're being responsible with your finances in the first place, it's unlikely you'll need one, but you'll be able to pay it back if you do.
Kendra, Tacoma, Washington (Sent Jul 1, 2009 10:23:14 AM)
As a former payday loan employee for one of the top names in the industry, I assure you that the customers welfare is of ZERO concern to the management. The only concern to them is just how many loans you have out in your region. They held contests between regional managers with BIG incentives to hawk these efforts.
The more loans, the more service fees. Loan losses were just part of doing business and figured into the bottom line therefore anyone gets a loan that requests one. The corporate office was often used for local politician gatherings. The company even employed a political affairs director to make sure and keep laws in all regions favorable for profits.
Bottom line: If all people who take out payday loans were to pay back the loans in 2 weeks as prescribed, there would be NO payday loan offices open. Stay clear if at all possible and seek other means.
Ben Dover (Sent Jul 1, 2009 10:23:10 AM)
I was an easy target for these type of loans when they first started. I thought it was the greatest thing in the world at first, but then realized I was not going to be able to pay back the loan and took out more. In the end I had about 7 loans at one time and my entire paycheck was spent just paying the interest. My checking account was eventually closed, which turned out to be a blessing in disguise, and I after several years I was able to pay the loans off entirely. These places should either be outlawed or have very heavy restrictions placed on them.
Carol, Greensboro, NC (Sent Jul 1, 2009 10:14:02 AM)
No one forced you to take out these loans and you should have asked about the interest rates before you did it. I don't think these loans benefit anyone but the company HOWEVER people seek them out. They would go out of business if people stopped using them. It's a capitalistic country at this time and these folks are true capitalists.
Karen, Las Vegas NV (Sent Jul 1, 2009 9:55:31 AM)
We shouldnt blame the payday loan industry,we should be blaming ourselves for doing business with them. If you think the fees are too high, dont take the loan. No, instead people thinks it too high but take the loan anyway and then complain about the fees, thats your fault!! I mean you people are saying we used to out people in jail for loan sharking, we also used to make people resposible for their own actions, what happened to that???
Amy, Kansas City, MO (Sent Jul 1, 2009 9:54:50 AM)
You borrowed $200 and ended up paying that much interest? I'm sorry but that was your fault. Pay day loans are supposed to give you that little boost until the next pay day, hence the name. I borrowed up to $350 and paid it off when I got paid. I NEVER had a problem repaying on time. The fees were less than it would have been to bounce my checking account. Pay day loans are fine if you are responsible.
Amanda, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Jul 1, 2009 9:46:48 AM)
A friend of mine took a out a payday loan. Ended up losing her job and unable to pay. The the loan company submited the check she gave them and it bounced. They turned her in for larceny and she ended up getting arrested and spent the night in jail. Now she will have to pay bail, court cost plus the judgment. STAY AWAY FROM PAYDAY LOANS!!!!
John Doe, South Texas (Sent Jul 1, 2009 9:28:08 AM)
Payday loan companies crow constantly about how they "help" people, but the reality is that they are a cancer that lawmakers in most states have allowed to spread without hindrance due to the factthat they make so much money and can write fat campaign checks.
All anyone needs to do to see how much "help" these places provide, is go into any civil court on any day of the week and look at the docket. You will find dozens and dozen of cases each day (hundreds in some markets) where payday loans are sueing lenders unable to keep up with the stiff "vig" and pay back loans made at 428% to 507% interest. We used to call this loan sharking and arrest people, but now we allow them to do it openly and call it free market. If they can't make money at 36% like they all complain, then they will have to close I guess. Most banks don't charge 36%, and the credit card companies do pretty well at less than 36% interest, so I can't listen to their argument that they need higher limits. The sooner they pass legislation that will lower costs or drive these blood suckers out business the better...
Ron Graham, Salt Lake City, UT (Sent Jul 1, 2009 9:21:06 AM)
Like many other individuals, I too was a pay day loan borrower. I borrowed $200, and it took about four to six months to pay it off because I never could repay the entire loan amount, in this case being $200.00. Instead, I opted to pay the interest fee, which was $50 per pay. By the time it was all said and done, I had paid approximately $400 to $500 in interest alone. I was already in bad finacial shape, but after this loan, I was much worse off. It took a very long time for me to recover financially. I have always discouraged others from doing what did. Pay day loans provide people with a false sence of security. If a person can't get a loan from a reputable source, then I would not recommend anyone to take out these loans because they will be much worse off. CONSUMER BEWARE!
Maggie Rivera (Sent Jul 1, 2009 7:45:20 AM)
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